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Old 02-17-2019, 08:16 AM
 
3,418 posts, read 665,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Those are not the Ten Commandments...

The bible says the are. Why do you say different?
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Long Island
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
There is only ONE place in the bible that it specifically states which of the Hebrew god's 10 commandments are defined as... the 10 Commandments

Exodus 34:28.

NO where else, only there. So, why are these ignored? And what's that about boiling goat kids in their mother's milk?? Why is it in the top ten things to do or not do?
I find it hilarious when people completely ignore the other 603 commandments in the Torah, but love to bicker about 10.
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:50 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,306 posts, read 453,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
There is only ONE place in the bible that it specifically states which of the Hebrew god's 10 commandments are defined as... the 10 Commandments

Exodus 34:28.

NO where else, only there. So, why are these ignored? And what's that about boiling goat kids in their mother's milk?? Why is it in the top ten things to do or not do?
You have a little confusion here. Let's go through this step by step.
First, the "10 commandments" are never, textually, called that. They are referred to as the Ten statements (sayings, utterances or somesuch).

They are distinct from the rest of the things that God commanded the people through Moses in that these 10 were a) said out loud at the Sinai revelation and b) written on the tablets (check Deut 10:4), but not in terms of importance or centrality. Other laws are no "less" because of that.

Moses wrote down all that God commanded the people -- this constitutes the body of the Torah, itself. So when other laws were given, there is no reason to think that Moses didn't write them down. Here are a couple of articles which explain the complexities:
https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...ah-Written.htm
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/art...orah-of-moses/
https://ohr.edu/3201


The contents of the 2 tablets (both sets) were written by God, not by Moses. As the commentators say on Ex 34:28:

"”He wrote on the Tablets;” G-d did the writing, as confirmed in Deuteronomy 10,2: “I shall write on the Tablets,” and in Deuteronomy 10,4 Moses confirms; “He wrote on the Tablets exactly as He had done on the first set of Tablets.”"
[note, I'm only cutting and pasting the Chizkuni's version because it is the first one I found available in English. Others, like the Ramban and Ibn Ezra say much the same.]

The fact that the layout in the text has an open break (p'tucha) after 34:27 indicates a change in focus.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:05 AM
 
3,941 posts, read 1,452,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
There is only ONE place in the bible that it specifically states which of the Hebrew god's 10 commandments are defined as... the 10 Commandments

Exodus 34:28.

NO where else, only there. So, why are these ignored? And what's that about boiling goat kids in their mother's milk?? Why is it in the top ten things to do or not do?
I think one of the factors could be that modern day Christianity has been transformed into a belief system that does not require “works” anymore.

Notions like, “Once saved always saved” kinda makes many believers not worry too much about works.

But yes, there are still those who strive to do what’s marked good by their faith, and they also try to avoid what’s prohibited by their faith.

And we should respect it if we feel that their lifestyle is morally a good one.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:54 AM
 
3,418 posts, read 665,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends View Post
You have a little confusion here. Let's go through this step by step.
First, the "10 commandments" are never, textually, called that. They are referred to as the Ten statements (sayings, utterances or somesuch).
Why are you ignoring Exodus 34:28? It states: "...And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments." (NIV, but KJV states virtually the same, as do all other translations)

Quote:
They are distinct from the rest of the things that God commanded the people through Moses in that these 10 were a) said out loud at the Sinai revelation and b) written on the tablets (check Deut 10:4), but not in terms of importance or centrality. Other laws are no "less" because of that.

Moses wrote down all that God commanded the people -- this constitutes the body of the Torah, itself. So when other laws were given, there is no reason to think that Moses didn't write them down. Here are a couple of articles which explain the complexities:
https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...ah-Written.htm
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/art...orah-of-moses/
https://ohr.edu/3201


The contents of the 2 tablets (both sets) were written by God, not by Moses. As the commentators say on Ex 34:28:

"”He wrote on the Tablets;” G-d did the writing, as confirmed in Deuteronomy 10,2: “I shall write on the Tablets,” and in Deuteronomy 10,4 Moses confirms; “He wrote on the Tablets exactly as He had done on the first set of Tablets.”"
[note, I'm only cutting and pasting the Chizkuni's version because it is the first one I found available in English. Others, like the Ramban and Ibn Ezra say much the same.]

The fact that the layout in the text has an open break (p'tucha) after 34:27 indicates a change in focus.
This is all very nice and good, but you are outlining what the commentators are saying, not what the bible actually says. One can't get around that, there is only ONE place that the words "Ten Commandments" is used, and that is Exodus 34:28. No amount of spinning or dancing can refute that.
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:11 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,306 posts, read 453,757 times
Reputation: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
There is only ONE place in the bible that it specifically states which of the Hebrew god's 10 commandments are defined as... the 10 Commandments

Exodus 34:28.

NO where else, only there. So, why are these ignored? And what's that about boiling goat kids in their mother's milk?? Why is it in the top ten things to do or not do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
Why are you ignoring Exodus 34:28? It states: "...And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments." (NIV, but KJV states virtually the same, as do all other translations)



This is all very nice and good, but you are outlining what the commentators are saying, not what the bible actually says. One can't get around that, there is only ONE place that the words "Ten Commandments" is used, and that is Exodus 34:28. No amount of spinning or dancing can refute that.
You clearly didn't read what I wrote and that's sad. 34:28 mentions that the words of the 10 statements were written but it doesn't say by whom, so you need not connect it to anything from 34:27 and earlier which, the text reports, were written by Moses (he was told to write the words of the covenant that began in verse 10, including no fewer than 12 different laws. Instead, connect them, as per the information I presented, with the 10 statements that were said at Sinai by God, amidst thunder and lightning. I gave all the citations. Simply ignoring them doesn't help your case.
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Long Island
1,656 posts, read 1,324,984 times
Reputation: 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
Why are you ignoring Exodus 34:28? It states: "...And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments." (NIV, but KJV states virtually the same, as do all other translations)
He's telling you what the HEBREW says, not the translation. In the Hebrew, they are the aseret ha-d'vrim, literally "the ten sayings". The word for "commandments" is mitzvot, and there 613 of those in the Torah.
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:57 AM
 
Location: US
27,137 posts, read 14,491,280 times
Reputation: 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
He's telling you what the HEBREW says, not the translation. In the Hebrew, they are the aseret ha-d'vrim, literally "the ten sayings". The word for "commandments" is mitzvot, and there 613 of those in the Torah.
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,079 posts, read 5,810,907 times
Reputation: 5347
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post

And what's that about boiling goat kids in their mother's milk?? Why is it in the top ten things to do or not do?
I figure goat kids boiled in their mother's milk is something of a 'gateway food' so to speak. You start eating that............................. then the next thing you know you are popping shrimp.................... and not to long after that it's ham, pork and pickled pigsfeet.......
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
53,403 posts, read 52,465,579 times
Reputation: 62886
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
Why are you ignoring Exodus 34:28? It states: "...And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments." (NIV, but KJV states virtually the same, as do all other translations)



This is all very nice and good, but you are outlining what the commentators are saying, not what the bible actually says. One can't get around that, there is only ONE place that the words "Ten Commandments" is used, and that is Exodus 34:28. No amount of spinning or dancing can refute that.
Not sure why you would expect a Jewish rabbi to use the KJV, or why you would argue with one about the Christian version of his religion.

OTOH, the question was directed to Christians...
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