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Old 02-18-2019, 04:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
From a Christian perspective...

To grow in Christ, becoming, over time, more like Him. This is done by studying His word, praying and using your spritual gifts.

If you fail to do this, your heavenly rewards will be lessened.
Kind of like having a gun to your head.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:23 PM
 
3,220 posts, read 1,006,641 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post
IF we are truly saved by Faith in Jesus Christs blood covering our sins, then His Holy Spirit will live in our hearts to influence us to sacrifice for others while we remain on earth.
Gotta love a good old fashioned blood cult
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,137 posts, read 8,871,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
That said, your point is a valid one, and some have exploited it it in the past: 'Kill them all - God will know his own', not to mention martyrs for Islam.

Indeed, I suspect that suicide has to be (tacitly - I haven't seen it wagged about as a doctrine) regarded as a sin that will debar one from heaven, otherwise all the God -believers would be doing it.
There is no explicit suicide prohibition in the Christian scriptures. It is an inferred doctrine, the usual line of reasoning being that it is self-murder, and therefore murder, perhaps even a particularly perverse form thereof, and therefore falls under "thou shalt not kill". Usually with a side-helping of "we mustn't play god" -- as if deciding when and how you will die is any less playing god than deciding that you will not die by your own hand. Apparently the idea is that god somehow has it Planned and pre-decided and you mustn't interfere.

Here's a quote from https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/peop...-in-the-bible:

"There are seven unambiguous examples of suicide in the Bible: Abimelech, mortally wounded by a millstone, ordered his armor-bearer to dispatch him to avoid the suggestion he had been slain by the woman who had thrown the stone (Judg 9:52-54); the prophet Ahithophel hanged himself after betraying David (2Sam 17:23); Zimri burned down his house around himself after military defeat (1Kgs 16:18); and the more familiar stories of Saul and his armor-bearer (1Sam 1:1-6; 1Chr 10:1-6), Samson, (Judg 16:28), and, of course, Jesus’ disciple Judas—although it is only in Matthew’s Gospel where he kills himself (Matt 27:3-5; compare with Acts 1:18). There is nothing in any of these stories to suggest that the biblical narrators disapprove of the characters’ suicides."
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Old 02-20-2019, 01:28 PM
Status: "Trump 2020" (set 6 hours ago)
 
Location: Spaceship Earth
15,899 posts, read 8,612,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15 View Post
Kind of like having a gun to your head.
More like get an education and earn more money.
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
14,333 posts, read 11,536,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
To me, the purpose of life is to attain our full potential as the offspring of God, to find joy in doing good and to leave this life better than we started out.
That's it in a nutshell and anything else I might add would be nothing more than frills.
Imo, this was the wisest thing said so far on this thread, girlfriend.*
Now, wait, aren't you a Mormon, imagine that...

*Notice I said imo....
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:35 PM
 
38,747 posts, read 26,052,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
From a Christian perspective...

To grow in Christ, becoming, over time, more like Him.
This is correct.
Quote:
This is done by studying His word, praying and using your spiritual gifts.
This is NOT! We do this by loving God AND each other every day and by repenting when we don't. When we love, we know God and Jesus which is eternal life.
Quote:
If you fail to do this, your heavenly rewards will be lessened.
It has nothing to do with rewards or punishments because such concerns corrupt the necessary loving state of mind, period.
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
14,333 posts, read 11,536,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
... When we love, we know God and Jesus which is eternal life.
It has nothing to do with rewards or punishments because such concerns corrupt
the necessary loving state of mind, period.
Hallelujah ! Heaven is singing that word right now with these words, my spiritual friend.
It is about purity and sincerity of the heart....the heart's love given in innocence and with simple love.
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Old 02-22-2019, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,915 posts, read 7,376,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Hallelujah ! Heaven is singing that word right now with these words, my spiritual friend.
It is about purity and sincerity of the heart....the heart's love given in innocence and with simple love.
Well, yes
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Old 02-27-2019, 01:47 AM
 
13,015 posts, read 6,219,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Disclaimer: This is NOT a thread about proofs and evidences. I would rather like to have a philosophical based logical discussion where we can share our ideas and our thoughts to dig a little deeper into this aspect of belief system.

So we start off with what we supposedly believe what heaven is?

And one part of this belief is that once you are in heaven, there is absolutely no pain, no worry and no bad memory left. It's a 100% worry free eternal bliss.
(Now, Whether there this is true or not, or whether there is an evidence to support this belief or not, is *NOT* the point of discussion here)

Some faith systems then go ahead and provide a guaranteed spot in heaven once one is entered into that particular faith.

There is no more accountability of your actions. There is no Hell or punishment for you after believe in such and such.

The question then is, what are you going to do with the rest of your life?

Does it make any significant difference to your guaranteed spot in heaven in regards to what you do in your life?

So logically speaking, such a believer should immediately commit suicide or at least keep praying 24/7 to have a naturally caused death ASAP.

I mean, why getup in the morning and go to work, and pay taxes and see all the misery in the world, and go through the pains of diseases etc?
And I have asked this question from some people.

A few answers I received are this.

"I love my dogs and can't leave them after me." (this one is not so convincing but it's OK)
"I am here to enjoy the luxuries of life"
"My faith prohibits me from committing suicide"

All these may be genuine reasons and I have nothing against it.

We also know that "Everyone wants to go heaven but no one wants to die". That's human nature.

Fair enough!

The question then is, why would such belief system not come with two conditions.

This is how it should be,

Once you enter this faith, a spot is guaranteed in heaven but

1 -You won't commit suicide
AND
2 - Here is the purpose of your life for the rest of your days.
.

I see that many followers of such faith systems pretty vigorously abide by the first condition - but many don't seem to know or don't care what's the significant purpose of their life AS PER prescribed by their faith. (condition # 2 above)

So the question from such believers is, what's the purpose of your life based on religious guidance (if you have any) after a spot is guaranteed in heaven?

And what happens to your guaranteed spot in heaven if you fail to follow the purpose of your life as prescribed by your faith?
A lot of people believe we have a purpose to fulfill whether we know what that is or not. God works in mysterious ways and all of that.

To the bolded. OMG, some people think we come back. Learn more lessons. ugh, I hate that thought, no, I feel like only people with charmed lives can contemplate that.

A friend of mine said coming back as a cat would be fine. I was like really? What if you come back as one like that feral who was SO sick but he could NOT trust me for so long and suffered so much. She was like yeah, that would not be cool.

That was one tough cat though. His body was like a pencil under his fur. He was dragging around a giant tumor. And yet he did it. He stayed out there on his own terms until he couldn't physically do it anymore. Years.

And then he waltzed into my house, ate and drank and got a bed and all the things, and still fought. He wanted out of the bathroom to sit in the sun through the window, though he didn't want to go back out anymore.

If that cat had a purpose, I bet he fulfilled it.

Things like that make me me 'crazy' to think about too much. They said the kind thing to do was euth him. What if I messed up his plan?

Whatever religion won't kill worms would say I messed. it. up. for him. Better to get some pain meds and do hospice.
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Old 02-27-2019, 01:52 AM
 
13,015 posts, read 6,219,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Some Christian sects have become suicide cults for precisely the reasons you suggest. Jonestown and the Branch Davidians come to mind. And others, back into antiquity.

This is the whole point of the suicide taboo -- to counter the line of reasoning you put forth. Dead followers don't fill offering plates. The essential nihilism of saying there's no purpose apart from what god bestows upon you, and that this life is a veil of tears and heaven a place where every tear will be wiped away, beg the question, why don't you just cut to the chase and go straight to your eternal reward?

As you also suggest, apart from the suicide taboo, some sects imply that you could lose your salvation if you sin, or if you sin too much, or too greatly. Even Christians who unambiguously believe in "eternal security" imply that you'll have a lower status in heaven, that you won't get that coveted "well done, thou good and faithful servant" commendation regarding how you comported yourself in life. Maybe you get the heavenly McMansion instead of the Greek temple of marble to live in or something.

Then there are the universal reconciliation folks, who believe that redemption is meaningless if it doesn't eventually save everyone. Those folks retain certain motivations to good works, such as suggesting that you might have a troublesome detour in purgatory or even hell if you're not good. Living a righteous life is incentivized by a direct ticket to heaven upon death.

And then of course most of these different groups subscribe to the circular reasoning that if you are a Christian, you have a new nature, a desire to be good rather than to sin, and so a person given over to a life of sin has not "truly" been redeemed to begin with. This is known as "sanctification".

All of which is sufficient to keep people feeling uneasy and self-loathing for just being human, which is the true point of the Abrahamic religions. Hellthreat is not the only way to keep people in line; and most sects use it sparingly, some not at all. But they all have ways and means.
I think I feel that way. IDK what I think about judgement day but there are times I feel I can't face God if I do this or that and explain myself. Mostly I am like I do not know what is right, but God does, and so I pray for him to help me do right, whatever that is.

I feel no self loathing. When I mess up, I recognize I am merely human, not inherently bad, but simply not perfect. I can't be. I say I am sorry and I mean it. And then try to 'do the next right thing' but not like scrambling. I don't know how to explain it well, I guess.
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