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Old 02-17-2019, 11:41 AM
 
4,048 posts, read 1,486,121 times
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Disclaimer: This is NOT a thread about proofs and evidences. I would rather like to have a philosophical based logical discussion where we can share our ideas and our thoughts to dig a little deeper into this aspect of belief system.

So we start off with what we supposedly believe what heaven is?

And one part of this belief is that once you are in heaven, there is absolutely no pain, no worry and no bad memory left. It's a 100% worry free eternal bliss.
(Now, Whether there this is true or not, or whether there is an evidence to support this belief or not, is *NOT* the point of discussion here)

Some faith systems then go ahead and provide a guaranteed spot in heaven once one is entered into that particular faith.

There is no more accountability of your actions. There is no Hell or punishment for you after believe in such and such.

The question then is, what are you going to do with the rest of your life?

Does it make any significant difference to your guaranteed spot in heaven in regards to what you do in your life?

So logically speaking, such a believer should immediately commit suicide or at least keep praying 24/7 to have a naturally caused death ASAP.

I mean, why getup in the morning and go to work, and pay taxes and see all the misery in the world, and go through the pains of diseases etc?
And I have asked this question from some people.

A few answers I received are this.

"I love my dogs and can't leave them after me." (this one is not so convincing but it's OK)
"I am here to enjoy the luxuries of life"
"My faith prohibits me from committing suicide"

All these may be genuine reasons and I have nothing against it.

We also know that "Everyone wants to go heaven but no one wants to die". That's human nature.

Fair enough!

The question then is, why would such belief system not come with two conditions.

This is how it should be,

Once you enter this faith, a spot is guaranteed in heaven but

1 -You won't commit suicide
AND
2 - Here is the purpose of your life for the rest of your days.
.

I see that many followers of such faith systems pretty vigorously abide by the first condition - but many don't seem to know or don't care what's the significant purpose of their life AS PER prescribed by their faith. (condition # 2 above)

So the question from such believers is, what's the purpose of your life based on religious guidance (if you have any) after a spot is guaranteed in heaven?

And what happens to your guaranteed spot in heaven if you fail to follow the purpose of your life as prescribed by your faith?
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:47 AM
 
10,676 posts, read 10,935,729 times
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The purpose of striving to go to heaven is to come into the presence of God who was gracious enough to offer his son Jesus as a sacrifice so that you could get to heaven in the first place. In heaven you will worship and praise God eternally and find complete satisfaction and purpose in doing this so there is no question of "What am I going to do for eternity?" That's what you're going to do for eternity and you'll love doing it.
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:54 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,550 posts, read 4,552,185 times
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As a previous "nondenominational evangelical KJV only" Christian, I can answer these two as follows:

1. The purpose of your life is decided by God and revealed to you through the Holy Spirit and a faithful and patient understanding. It could include to help your children, help the world, become famous to spread the faith, help some stranger, help your nation, help your employer, etc.

2. Nothing, the "ticket" is maintained as long as you don't lose faith. You'll probably lose some degree of worldly happiness during your life, since meeting your purpose is supposed to make you happy.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:49 PM
 
12,146 posts, read 4,615,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
The purpose of striving to go to heaven is to come into the presence of God who was gracious enough to offer his son Jesus as a sacrifice so that you could get to heaven in the first place. In heaven you will worship and praise God eternally and find complete satisfaction and purpose in doing this so there is no question of "What am I going to do for eternity?" That's what you're going to do for eternity and you'll love doing it.
he was killed in what? 8 hrs?

I am coming up on 30 years of marriage, he got off easy.
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Old 02-17-2019, 02:08 PM
 
3,775 posts, read 2,456,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Disclaimer: This is NOT a thread about proofs and evidences. I would rather like to have a philosophical based logical discussion where we can share our ideas and our thoughts to dig a little deeper into this aspect of belief system.

So we start off with what we supposedly believe what heaven is?

And one part of this belief is that once you are in heaven, there is absolutely no pain, no worry and no bad memory left. It's a 100% worry free eternal bliss.
(Now, Whether there this is true or not, or whether there is an evidence to support this belief or not, is *NOT* the point of discussion here)

Some faith systems then go ahead and provide a guaranteed spot in heaven once one is entered into that particular faith.

There is no more accountability of your actions. There is no Hell or punishment for you after believe in such and such.

The question then is, what are you going to do with the rest of your life?

Does it make any significant difference to your guaranteed spot in heaven in regards to what you do in your life?

So logically speaking, such a believer should immediately commit suicide or at least keep praying 24/7 to have a naturally caused death ASAP.

I mean, why getup in the morning and go to work, and pay taxes and see all the misery in the world, and go through the pains of diseases etc?
And I have asked this question from some people.

A few answers I received are this.

"I love my dogs and can't leave them after me." (this one is not so convincing but it's OK)
"I am here to enjoy the luxuries of life"
"My faith prohibits me from committing suicide"

All these may be genuine reasons and I have nothing against it.

We also know that "Everyone wants to go heaven but no one wants to die". That's human nature.

Fair enough!

The question then is, why would such belief system not come with two conditions.

This is how it should be,

Once you enter this faith, a spot is guaranteed in heaven but

1 -You won't commit suicide
AND
2 - Here is the purpose of your life for the rest of your days.
.

I see that many followers of such faith systems pretty vigorously abide by the first condition - but many don't seem to know or don't care what's the significant purpose of their life AS PER prescribed by their faith. (condition # 2 above)

So the question from such believers is, what's the purpose of your life based on religious guidance (if you have any) after a spot is guaranteed in heaven?

And what happens to your guaranteed spot in heaven if you fail to follow the purpose of your life as prescribed by your faith?
I'll take a stab it.


Q: So the question from such believers is, what's the purpose of your life based on religious guidance (if you have any) after a spot is guaranteed in heaven?
A: To be a living vessel for God.


Q: And what happens to your guaranteed spot in heaven if you fail to follow the purpose of your life as prescribed by your faith?
A: For some, it could be hell, for others it might mean reincarnation.
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Old 02-17-2019, 03:50 PM
 
5,490 posts, read 2,153,102 times
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Live like an atheist ☺ Be good, kind and loving to your friends and family, nice to stranges, respect the environment and read a good book.

Seriously, just continue living as a decent person.
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,137 posts, read 8,871,213 times
Reputation: 6047
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Some faith systems then go ahead and provide a guaranteed spot in heaven once one is entered into that particular faith.

There is no more accountability of your actions. There is no Hell or punishment for you after believe in such and such.

The question then is, what are you going to do with the rest of your life?

Does it make any significant difference to your guaranteed spot in heaven in regards to what you do in your life?

So logically speaking, such a believer should immediately commit suicide or at least keep praying 24/7 to have a naturally caused death ASAP.

I mean, why getup in the morning and go to work, and pay taxes and see all the misery in the world, and go through the pains of diseases etc?
Some Christian sects have become suicide cults for precisely the reasons you suggest. Jonestown and the Branch Davidians come to mind. And others, back into antiquity.

This is the whole point of the suicide taboo -- to counter the line of reasoning you put forth. Dead followers don't fill offering plates. The essential nihilism of saying there's no purpose apart from what god bestows upon you, and that this life is a veil of tears and heaven a place where every tear will be wiped away, beg the question, why don't you just cut to the chase and go straight to your eternal reward?

As you also suggest, apart from the suicide taboo, some sects imply that you could lose your salvation if you sin, or if you sin too much, or too greatly. Even Christians who unambiguously believe in "eternal security" imply that you'll have a lower status in heaven, that you won't get that coveted "well done, thou good and faithful servant" commendation regarding how you comported yourself in life. Maybe you get the heavenly McMansion instead of the Greek temple of marble to live in or something.

Then there are the universal reconciliation folks, who believe that redemption is meaningless if it doesn't eventually save everyone. Those folks retain certain motivations to good works, such as suggesting that you might have a troublesome detour in purgatory or even hell if you're not good. Living a righteous life is incentivized by a direct ticket to heaven upon death.

And then of course most of these different groups subscribe to the circular reasoning that if you are a Christian, you have a new nature, a desire to be good rather than to sin, and so a person given over to a life of sin has not "truly" been redeemed to begin with. This is known as "sanctification".

All of which is sufficient to keep people feeling uneasy and self-loathing for just being human, which is the true point of the Abrahamic religions. Hellthreat is not the only way to keep people in line; and most sects use it sparingly, some not at all. But they all have ways and means.
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:12 PM
 
38,747 posts, read 26,052,874 times
Reputation: 5950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
I am coming up on 30 years of marriage, he got off easy.
I am sure this was meant as a joke and it is humorous. But as I approach 56 years of marriage, I would find it beyond sad that anyone was in a long marriage that they did not cherish. There are ample examples in society that it is all too frequent but I wonder why. I suspect it is the lack of a long courtship period prior to marriage. I courted my wife for 6+ years before we found each other desirable as mates for life.
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:17 PM
 
38,747 posts, read 26,052,874 times
Reputation: 5950
Default When faith guarantees you a place in paradise then what significant purpose of life is left?

This is like asking why should any fruiting plant continue to grow? Why doesn't it simply produce its fruit right now and skip all the intervening growth?
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,698 posts, read 21,582,268 times
Reputation: 10394
To me, the purpose of life is to attain our full potential as the offspring of God, to find joy in doing good and to leave this life better than we started out. That's it in a nutshell and anything else I might add would be nothing more than frills.
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