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Old 03-01-2019, 10:09 AM
 
Location: minnesota
5,975 posts, read 1,921,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
But think about from this angle.

If Jesus can come down harshly on people and call them “brood of vipers” and “blind leading the blind”, then why can’t Christians tell the same to some Atheists because those Atheists act “prideful, arrogant, conceited, know it alls...”? (where is that blind viper TRANSPONDER? He thinks he is a know all.)

On a serious note though - I think you are slightly over reacting. I have seen very little of what you seem to have gotten bothered with. There are then Forum rules that deter personal attacks etc - and mods are doing a great job.

So chill and relax and post more often. It’s nice to have to thoughts and ideas to discuss.
Jesus wasn't referring to atheists. The only time, I recall, Jesus got angry at someone is when they were using God to block people from God.

The Bible does give direction on how a Christian is to act and it included the fruitages of the Spirit and mild words turning away anger. I have to agree with the OP that there are plenty who claim right belief but prove false to it's power.

Edit; not trying to put words in the OPs mouth but that's what I took from it.
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:16 AM
 
33 posts, read 4,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Ok. For my part your polite posting was a welcome change and I would like to respond by hoping that a discussion that does not suffer from what is all too common - people getting annoyed and starting to make personal remarks when their view point is seriously challenged, and of course taking it personally when it is argued that their case is not logically or evidentially sound.

Perhaps atheists do get too snarky. That ought not to matter in the case is sound, but too often it riles people. I do feel that those arguing for a more or less Theistic (or even what -is -called - "agnostic" (read "half -wanting to believe in a god") do take it personally and resort to accusations of rudeness when their beliefs get challenged.
See Trans? You are as I stated over yonder in the Atheist thread...
You're a good, decent person, Your IQ probably exceeds mine, and...I forget that last one but it was something positive! (bright laugh) (to which, you responded----via "Meatloaf"---Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad...)

I'll promise to never be snarky with you...if I ever do---call me out.
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:20 AM
 
36,424 posts, read 9,847,905 times
Reputation: 4923
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Christians vs. Atheists, what? (Just need clarification what the topic is.)
Perhaps some topics for debate will pop up in general discussion. Though if not, we may indeed have nothing much to talk about.

Possibly a topic of "Ok, suppose the "Nones" (with a working majority of card -carrying Atheists in them) get a social weight and voting majority. What can Christianity expect - or what has it to fear - from what we would want to do? I think a lot of them are very distrustful of the atheist agenda. It is a level social playing field where no one religion dominates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
But think about from this angle.

If Jesus can come down harshly on people and call them “brood of vipers” and “blind leading the blind”, then why can’t Christians tell the same to some Atheists because those Atheists act “prideful, arrogant, conceited, know it alls...”? (where is that blind viper TRANSPONDER? He thinks he is a know all.)
Who, me? The point is of course, that correcting (even harshly) those who are wrong has some merit, but what if the Pharisees were right and Jesus was wrong? They he would look a bit of an asshat and a joke.

Who (after the debate is over and the dust has settled) is right perhaps determines who is entitles to bang on the bale and whom is not.

Quote:
On a serious note though - I think you are slightly over reacting. I have seen very little of what you seem to have gotten bothered with. There are then Forum rules that deter personal attacks etc - and mods are doing a great job.

So chill and relax and post more often. It’s nice to have to thoughts and ideas to discuss.
This is true. Compared to a lot of forums, this one is pretty well -moderated. Wrangles are closed down when they get out of hand.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-01-2019 at 10:38 AM..
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:25 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
839 posts, read 176,385 times
Reputation: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post

If I may 'ramble' a bit about atheism. It is not believing the claim for a god of any kind (until there is valid reason to), and rejecting the claims of Christianity, the Bible and the Jesus depicted in the Bible - though I personally thing there was an actual Jesus, not too unlike the gospel Jesus.

While I do not believe for a moment that Jesus actually wrangled with the Pharisees in the way depicted in the gospels, I take the point that speaking harshly at times in order to make valid criticism has its' uses. It cuts both ways, of course.



I suspect our new pal would get more from not talking to the chior but the godless bastards in the pub on a Sunday.
Who is your new ‘pal’?

There is nothing wrong with expressing your thoughts (or rambling) on atheism. We all do, and we all know Christianity does not measure up to ‘logic’. We aren’t the first people to think of it, right?

I think some of us simply have a problem with anti-theism; and as atheists, we don’t wish to blur the two.
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:32 AM
 
36,424 posts, read 9,847,905 times
Reputation: 4923
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
It's actually pretty tame around here lately but I noticed the same thing you did when I first started posting here. Now I just think of it as Christian conclusion v atheist conclusion. There are personal attacks all the time but mainly is what is being discussed is beliefs and beliefs don't have feelings.
I agree. I suspect that the personals arise because the argument itself gets nowhere. The case for Christianity (and any other religion) has been done to death. Recent arrivals won't know that Christians used to dominate generally and 'A/A' was under bombardment regularly. There were some high -powered debators for religion, like Campbell 34 and old Eusebius (we became DM mates, you know, even while we fought like bantams).

The fact is that the Christians have retreated to their own Forum and locked the doors. We satanic hellspawn do thus range freely in R/S. That's just how it is. There seems therefore no argument about Christianity itself but with those who take issue with the stridency and pushiness of atheism.

It isn't new. pushing back against 'New' Atheism by those i rather expected to be 'with us' was a feature from the start. The reasons why are varied, but largely it came across to me as an emotional attachment to a religion they didn't really believe. I would say that there is plenty of room for believers in a generally secular society - which is what we tend to have in Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Who is your new ‘pal’?

There is nothing wrong with expressing your thoughts (or rambling) on atheism. We all do, and we all know Christianity does not measure up to ‘logic’. We aren’t the first people to think of it, right?

I think some of us simply have a problem with anti-theism; and as atheists, we don’t wish to blur the two.
Casual visitor, I referred to. But you are a fairly 'New' pal, too. And so is Vic. I really would prefer not to ferry over the row about 'anti -theism' from where we left it. Sufficient unto the day.." and all that. I would prefer a discussion about Christianity. in fact.

And where has Shirina got to? I hope she's ok. She has health problems.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-01-2019 at 10:41 AM..
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:39 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
839 posts, read 176,385 times
Reputation: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post

It isn't new. pushing back against 'New' Atheism by those i rather expected to be 'with us' was a feature from the start. The reasons why are varied, but largely it came across to me as an emotional attachment to a religion they didn't really believe. I would say that there is plenty of room for believers in a generally secular society - which is what we tend to have in Europe.
The only thing ‘emotionally-driven’ is your perceptions about what constitutes ‘real’ atheism in your eyes. An atheist is an atheist, and your way of insulting a fellow atheist is to insist he is a closet theist (either directly or through random ‘jokes’).

I, too, would like it to end- if you can emotionally accept I’m an atheist, that is.
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:48 AM
 
36,424 posts, read 9,847,905 times
Reputation: 4923
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
The only thing ‘emotionally-driven’ is your perceptions about what constitutes ‘real’ atheism in your eyes. An atheist is an atheist, and your way of insulting a fellow atheist is to insist he is a closet theist (either directly or through random ‘jokes’).
'Real' atheism? There is only atheism'. One believes the god -claim or not. There may be theists is disguise. We've had a couple. But that is not the same as not being a 'real' (in the sense of 'correct dogma' atheist. We may disagree on a lot of things, such as what, as atheists, we should do, but non -belief isn't an issue.
Rather it is those with a problem with Outspoken Atheism that feel we are not what atheism ought to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
See Trans? You are as I stated over yonder in the Atheist thread...
You're a good, decent person, Your IQ probably exceeds mine, and...I forget that last one but it was something positive! (bright laugh) (to which, you responded----via "Meatloaf"---Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad...)

I'll promise to never be snarky with you...if I ever do---call me out.
I meant of course '2 out of three wrong', but never mind. And I can roll even with Snarky - if a valid point is being made.

In fact the way we get treated by Christians here is quite polite compared to some of them. I trust that they are not Typical.

..no srcap that - it was an advert for a Product... and it did feature some Bad Hats including I noted the debunked and disgraced venomfang online Christian apologist)

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-01-2019 at 10:57 AM..
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Old 03-01-2019, 11:05 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
839 posts, read 176,385 times
Reputation: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
'Real' atheism? There is only atheism'. One believes the god -claim or not. There may be theists is disguise. We've had a couple. But that is not the same as not being a 'real' (in the sense of 'correct dogma' atheist. We may disagree on a lot of things, such as what, as atheists, we should do, but non -belief isn't an issue.
Rather it is those with a problem with Outspoken Atheism that feel we are not what atheism ought to be.



.
I am an atheist; there are some things on a public forum you must take at face value (and why you would even care is another matter). It is not up to you to ‘police’ the forum by interrogation or accusation because ‘we’ve had a couple’. If you suspect someone is in ‘disguise’, then take appropriate action outside of the thread.

And, I am not against atheists speaking out (or I wouldn’t be here - lol). I’m against anti-theistic dogma (but still believe in your right to preach it).
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Old 03-01-2019, 11:12 AM
 
8,066 posts, read 4,792,945 times
Reputation: 9288
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post

Christians...if you are truly a Christian...simply put--grow up and go back to Scripture. Your arrogance, pride, "holier than thou" attitude is an abomination.

Jesus did NOT teach this in the least. In fact, if you do study Scripture, you'll see He often came down on the religious leaders of His day--the Pharisees--more harshly than anyone else. He called them a brood of vipers, white washed tombs, the blind leading the blind...they were prideful, arrogant, conceited, know it alls...they worshiped---themselves.

I don't see dead people...but, I do see...modern day Pharisees.

Further, Paul was clear in Romans 12, for example..."do not think more highly of yourself than you ought..." Read and heed.

I am a Christian. Jesus is the Lord and Savior of my life. I am not perfect...I fall and fail...but my hope, my prayer, my heart's desire is to--on this topic--respect and love other's as I love myself. I may disagree with their life choices, I may disagree with their thinking...but, I'll still strive to honor and respect them.

I'm rambling, so I'll stop...I suffer from "run off" of the keyboard.
The vast majority of "Christians" bear little to no resemblance to Jesus as depicted in the Bible. I don't think this is news. It's not just the things you call out by name here, either. We see a great deal of dishonesty from self-titled Christians on these forums. And I think we all know how God feels about liars.
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Old 03-01-2019, 11:14 AM
 
8,066 posts, read 4,792,945 times
Reputation: 9288
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
I am an atheist; there are some things on a public forum you must take at face value (and why you would even care is another matter). It is not up to you to ‘police’ the forum by interrogation or accusation because ‘we’ve had a couple’. If you suspect someone is in ‘disguise’, then take appropriate action outside of the thread.

And, I am not against atheists speaking out (or I wouldn’t be here - lol). I’m against anti-theistic dogma (but still believe in your right to preach it).
In your opinion, what is "anti-theistic dogma"?
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