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Old 03-02-2019, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,428 posts, read 9,967,578 times
Reputation: 2493

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
He told his disciples that. Not every single person is charged with that;
So Christians keep claiming...because they want to keep their possessions. So when he told that disciples that they should love each other, that was only meant for them right? The rest of can ignore that instruction?

Quote:
He said to the woman who purchased VERY expensive perfume to bathe his feet in, and she was criticized for not donating that money to the poor instead, "there will always be the poor"
.How convenient for you.

Can you point me to the part of the verse where Jesus says to the rich man...'This instruction is only meant for you fella.'
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Old 03-02-2019, 11:59 AM
 
33 posts, read 4,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
As an ex-Christian, I have an even simpler message: God IS love and does not punish, nor ever will punish, anyone for not believing that God is love. I personally believe I can trust God because of God's very nature, and so can anyone else, but if they don't God's not going to destroy or punish them.

Many Christians on this forum have ridiculed and rejected me for sharing that message. Depending on their brand of Christianity, they have assured me that because I no longer believe that Jesus was a blood sacrifice nor that Jesus is my savior (from the wrath of God), I will either be condemned by God to an eternity of inescapable torment or be annihilated, and wiped from the memory of even those whom I love. Is that also your message?
Pieroo...you ask a difficult question. Indeed you do. And, my natural man says "be gentle, don't make waves" Just today I saw a Facebook talking about watering down "the message".

I could lie to you about my true feelings. It would be the pathway of least resistance. But, I care too much to say anything other than the truth as I believe it in my heart.

God IS Love. It's not His will that any should perish. That's exactly why He did send Jesus...
But, He is a God of Judgement. If you reject Jesus, you reject Him. Jesus said, "I and the Father are One."

Yes, a rejection of Jesus as savior will result in the condemnation you describe.

Now, this is where the flaming arrows come out usually...and, being a flesh and blood man, I hate that.
But, I too will be held accountable one day for every word I speak (or type) . If I watered it down...I will answer for it.

But, I will NEVER ridicule you or reject you...NEVER. I think you're a decent person. We just don't share the same beliefs. But, from my side of this...that doesn't make you my enemy.
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Old 03-02-2019, 11:59 AM
 
3,953 posts, read 1,458,623 times
Reputation: 1281
What’s the “Other Thingies” in OP?
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Old 03-02-2019, 12:01 PM
 
8,408 posts, read 3,317,863 times
Reputation: 21729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
So Christians keep claiming...because they want to keep their possessions. So when he told that disciples that they should love each other, that was only meant for them right? The rest of can ignore that instruction?

.How convenient for you.

Can you point me to the part of the verse where Jesus says to the rich man...'This instruction is only meant for you fella.'
Jesus told his disciples to give everything to the poor, walk away from their father on the bank of the river, leave their home behind. He didn't call EVERYONE to be a disciple. He also had ardent followers who were funding his mission, I believe Mary Magdalene was one (one of the Marys funded him, I think maybe through her family's very lucrative shipping business).

The disciples weren't telling everyone give everything you have to the poor, and follow me. They told people to love one another as He has loved you, and care for one another.

I'm not quite sure what the "how convenient for you" statement was about. Maybe how inconvenient that passage is to YOU?
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Old 03-02-2019, 12:03 PM
 
3,953 posts, read 1,458,623 times
Reputation: 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
As an ex-Christian, I have an even simpler message: God IS love and does not punish, nor ever will punish, anyone for not believing that God is love.I personally believe I can trust God because of God's very nature, and so can anyone else, but if they don't God's not going to destroy or punish them.

Many Christians on this forum have ridiculed and rejected me for sharing that message. Depending on their brand of Christianity, they have assured me that because I no longer believe that Jesus was a blood sacrifice nor that Jesus is my savior (from the wrath of God), I will either be condemned by God to an eternity of inescapable torment or be annihilated, and wiped from the memory of even those whom I love. Is that also your message?
If God is all love and nothing but love and if there are no consequences for our Actions then what’s the fate of Hitler?
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Old 03-02-2019, 12:09 PM
 
3,953 posts, read 1,458,623 times
Reputation: 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
Pieroo...you probably already know it...you've been "around the block" a time or two most likely.

Yet, you asked so I will answer.

It's a very simple message. Jesus is the King and Savior of this world. He truly is the way, the truth, the life and no man comes to the Father but by Him. Jesus said He came to bring life to the weary, the burdened, the down and out...the hopeless.

He did it for me. He told me to share this with other's and to tell them it's there, it's ready, it's available for all that desire to believe.

But, one more time...I share that message and I know it's rejected and ridiculed by many. It's too "simple" for the logical and analytical mind. I understand that---I too rejected it for many years. That's why I bear no grudge or animosity to unbelievers or those that reject...I've been there and I understand.
Hmmm....
Jesusís own mother was not a Christian and perhaps a BILLION people lived in the pre-Jesus era who never knew who Jesus was.

So all these folks are in hell?
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Old 03-02-2019, 12:11 PM
 
Location: USA
15,750 posts, read 7,893,481 times
Reputation: 2073
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
If God is all love and nothing but love and if there are no consequences for our Actions then whatís the fate of Hitler?
I never said there are not consequences for one's actions nor did I say anything about God being nothing but love. I personally believe that love is the foundation from which everything that God is proceeds. Love doesn't punish, love heals and transforms. One doesn't even have to believe that "God" exists in order to experience the transformative power of love in their life.

Putting Hitler to the side for a moment because I think it's much more important to bring the question to a personal level, what about you? What are the consequences you are expecting for your "sins"? Is God going to punish you for them?
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Old 03-02-2019, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
20,556 posts, read 9,657,781 times
Reputation: 19421
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
...

I'm not quite sure what the "how convenient for you" statement was about. ...
Many christians like to think they walk in the footsteps of jesus. How convenient that you've found a loophole.
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Old 03-02-2019, 12:17 PM
 
Location: USA
15,750 posts, read 7,893,481 times
Reputation: 2073
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
Pieroo...you ask a difficult question. Indeed you do. And, my natural man says "be gentle, don't make waves" Just today I saw a Facebook talking about watering down "the message".

I could lie to you about my true feelings. It would be the pathway of least resistance. But, I care too much to say anything other than the truth as I believe it in my heart.

God IS Love. It's not His will that any should perish. That's exactly why He did send Jesus...
But, He is a God of Judgement. If you reject Jesus, you reject Him. Jesus said, "I and the Father are One."

Yes, a rejection of Jesus as savior will result in the condemnation you describe.

Now, this is where the flaming arrows come out usually...and, being a flesh and blood man, I hate that.
But, I too will be held accountable one day for every word I speak (or type) . If I watered it down...I will answer for it.

But, I will NEVER ridicule you or reject you...NEVER. I think you're a decent person. We just don't share the same beliefs. But, from my side of this...that doesn't make you my enemy.
I have no problem with you, or anyone else, speaking what you believe to be truth. I hope you understand that your message, however, is anything but simple. It's a convoluted message, a mixed message (God loves you but God is going to condemn you to an eternity of torment if you don't believe that God required a blood sacrifice in order to forgive you). I hope you understand that such a message, which denigrates God's very nature, is in need of flaming, but that does not equal me flaming you.
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Old 03-02-2019, 12:27 PM
 
36,424 posts, read 9,847,905 times
Reputation: 4923
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Like the boy who cried wolf, Arq, your ubiquitous claims of victory have lost all credibility.
Rather it is your persistent denial that your faith -claims have been debunked (even without your habitual deprecation of anyone who disagrees with you) that is losing Your credibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Yeah, I see that. He thinks I am attacking atheism (or atheists who are ‘outspoken’) which, of course, I am not - as I am both of those things!
You don't get me at all (Mystic doesn't even want to). I want you to explain to me what your are saying - not me tell you. And then I will ask you why that differs from 'anti theism'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
It wasn’t about bullying atheists - it’s about anti-theism (and how some people wish to portray atheism). That your emotional perception of the subject keeps morphing it into something else, does not change the topic. But that’s really my point - hot headed emotion and ranting about theism is never going to help the cause of making atheism more mainstream in our society.
My memory might be at fault there, but the point has come up in various ways. I'm hoping that you will come to see that 'ranting' is not the issue but a red herring distracting for the validity of one case or another in the debate. I still think that you wil come around - especially if you watch those two videos.

Quote:
No thread has been hijacked - anyone is able to jump in about Christians and Atheists any time. This topic is about all things Christian and Atheist - and this is on topic.
Well, I rather think it has. I was hoping that Constable Visit and others could talk generally about the claims of religion and the counters, rather than let the 'anti -theist' debate spill over here.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-02-2019 at 12:35 PM..
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