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Old 03-29-2019, 01:22 PM
 
Location: USA
15,906 posts, read 8,170,566 times
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Casual Visitor...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I'm very glad to hear that you came out of the collapse. I've been through my own collapse, so I relate.



I'm very glad that you have purpose and hope. What I'm asking is how did JESUS do these things for you?



...
? Are you able to put it into words?
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Old 03-29-2019, 03:03 PM
 
106 posts, read 26,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Casual Visitor...



? Are you able to put it into words?
Well...ok, one clarification. When I say "Jesus" I'm saying Jesus/God. He, Jesus, said I am the Father are One. So, that's who I refer on this.

Now...this is difficult to explain because of the nature of the help He gave me. No, He didn't reach down and physically give me a hand and lift me up, He didn't literally reach down and dry the tears in my eyes, He didn't, in the natural, clean my hurts or wash away the blood.

So, it's difficult to put into descriptive words. Trying to put the supernatural into natural terms doesn't mesh very well and it certainly doesn't make sense to the rational mind.

I merely cracked the door of my heart and life and asked for His help. It was a moment of humility birthed out of tragedy *(mostly self inflicted)*

Actually, looking back, it was scary in a way. I'd never acknowledged I wasn't as tough as I thought I was, I'd never asked for help from anybody for anything, and I'd certainly never considered God being the source of that help. It was new territory I'd never tread until then. *smiles to self* Yeah, I remember it well...so well.

My outlook changed, my mind shifted, my thoughts improved. Things just started "falling into place". It truly was a supernatural process that changed everything about my life...to God be the Glory.

I resist adding a "preemptive strike" here.
I'll just leave it at that I suppose.
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Old 03-29-2019, 03:20 PM
 
13,493 posts, read 4,996,362 times
Reputation: 1365
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
Well...ok, one clarification. When I say "Jesus" I'm saying Jesus/God. He, Jesus, said I am the Father are One. So, that's who I refer on this.

Now...this is difficult to explain because of the nature of the help He gave me. No, He didn't reach down and physically give me a hand and lift me up, He didn't literally reach down and dry the tears in my eyes, He didn't, in the natural, clean my hurts or wash away the blood.

So, it's difficult to put into descriptive words. Trying to put the supernatural into natural terms doesn't mesh very well and it certainly doesn't make sense to the rational mind.

I merely cracked the door of my heart and life and asked for His help. It was a moment of humility birthed out of tragedy *(mostly self inflicted)*

Actually, looking back, it was scary in a way. I'd never acknowledged I wasn't as tough as I thought I was, I'd never asked for help from anybody for anything, and I'd certainly never considered God being the source of that help. It was new territory I'd never tread until then. *smiles to self* Yeah, I remember it well...so well.

My outlook changed, my mind shifted, my thoughts improved. Things just started "falling into place". It truly was a supernatural process that changed everything about my life...to God be the Glory.

I resist adding a "preemptive strike" here.
I'll just leave it at that I suppose.
are you ok with teaching to literally died and rose for our sins?

or is it more of a club membership type thing for ya?
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Old 03-29-2019, 04:30 PM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,846 posts, read 3,355,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
Pleroo,

Ok...you've seen those horrid film clips from 2001...when the Twin Towers just, suddenly, collapsed upon themselves, yes?

That's a visual of my life. Everything...collapsed. The details don't matter really. The fact of that is enough.

Many things could have been my "answer" to this. Drugs, alcohol, suicide. Yeah, viable options at that time in my life.

It was at this moment that I dared to consider...just consider...when I cried out "God, I don't know if you're there or not...but, if you are...I need you...please help me..."
I was there once ... shortly after I graduated high school. I won't get into the details, of course, but I found myself very much alone and facing unspeakable challenges that I just couldn't prepare for even though I knew they were coming.

I prayed to God so many times I thought my tongue would fall out of my mouth. I approached it every way I knew how to do. In addition, I did all of the other things, as well. Attended church, got baptized, Bible reading, and all the rest of it.

And nothing happened. As a student of history going all the way back to 3rd grade, the first thing that popped into my head after years of nothing ... years of my prayers echoing back to me off the bare walls and hearing, feeling, sensing an absolute nothing as if I were spewing prayers of light from the center of a black hole ... the first thing I thought of were the 11 or so million people who were gassed or shot during the Holocaust.

I thought ... God didn't answer their prayers, either. The absolute horror of being in one of those camps, the lines of naked bodies marching obediently to their doom - and I have no doubt that thousands upon thousands upon thousands of prayers were said as they marched.

Nothing. Many holocaust survivors lost their faith during those years asking the same question I did. "Where is God?"

Yes, where, indeed. I had to do everything myself. Sure, some tried to use the incredibly weak argument that goes a little like this: "Well, you survived and eventually thrived, didn't you? See? That shows God's work in your life. He gave you the strength to overcome those challenges ... and yada yada."

Except he didn't. No matter how fervently I prayed, no matter how sincere I was, no matter which direction I approached or style I used - still nothing. It wasn't as if God gave me a can of spinach and suddenly I felt stronger, more confident, and ready to stare down life and win.

Oh no. I never felt any different than the day before I took the plunge into religion.

I'm not bitter or resentful about it. Nothing about that haunts me; I don't shake my fist at God and blame him for the life I had - and still have - or curse him for cursing me.

I just came to the realization that God just simply wasn't there at all. And he never had been there.

Even now, I find it hard - nay, impossible - to believe that God goes around playing favorites, plucking this or that individual out of a crowd to reveal himself. Heal that person, let that other person die. Save that person from a fatal wreck, but let everyone in the other car die. Grant this person boons of wealth, health, and success while letting millions of people starve to death in Africa.

I've always had a big problem dealing with people who think they, personally, were somehow touched by God when so many others have not.

There were times, early on, when I writhed in my bed in agony, the 4am demons to haunt my thoughts as I dealt with the physical pain. I almost prayed. But I didn't. Because I kept thinking to myself how ridiculous it was to expect a miracle from God when there were so many ... more qualified people who needed help. I shouldn't expect anything at all until starvation is banished, war is a memory, poverty vanquished.

It wasn't completely altrusitic - honestly, I'm not THAT good of a person. I won't go into the details of that, either. But I will say that it's incredible what suffering agonizing pain will do to your thoughts. You'll do anything to make it stop. I do mean ... anything ... right up to self-amputation or even, yes, murder. Not that killing anyone would help, but flying off into pain-induced rages happened to me quite often.

And so I wanted God to stop the pain. Now. Right this instant. Of course, that didn't do anything, either. Yeah, I've heard the stories of how trials like this are supposed to make you stronger or teach you some kind of lesson. But that's not true. This is just senseless suffering - because I did a lot more good and helped far more people when I was healthy.

Bottom line, though, that my belief in this religion thing waned - and still nothing happened. There was no feeling like I was drifting away from something, no fear whatsoever of hell, there was no sense of my soul being in jeopardy.

To this day, I still cannot believe that a good and just God would single people out to whom he reveals himself or to whom he doles out miracles. To me, that is also cruel - to help some while dismissing everyone else. What makes those people so special? I wonder just how prideful one has to be to seriously think the creator of the universe took time out from his schedule, so to speak, to help this *one* person while so many more needed help and got nothing at all.

I feel it has to be everyone - or no one. Otherwise it's immoral. At least it is for an all-powerful God. I just made up my mind that there was no God at all. Of course I still feel that way - and if some higher power exists, it isn't anything from the Bible. A true god would truly be unknowable - and wouldn't throw a fit because you ate shellfish or wore clothes of two different fabrics. He wouldn't have a "Chosen People" or inflict plagues onto innocents to free those people. He wouldn't write in rules to make women merely property, write regulations on how to own slaves, or think a man who would throw his virgin daughters to a rape gang was righteous and good. To me, the Bible betrays the religion it represents.

I can't possibly know what it is you experienced - but I have a hard time believing it was Yahweh or Jesus. Truth be told, I hope it wasn't.
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Old 03-29-2019, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,818 posts, read 4,970,941 times
Reputation: 1509
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
Well...ok, one clarification. When I say "Jesus" I'm saying Jesus/God. He, Jesus, said I am the Father are One. So, that's who I refer on this.

Now...this is difficult to explain because of the nature of the help He gave me. No, He didn't reach down and physically give me a hand and lift me up, He didn't literally reach down and dry the tears in my eyes, He didn't, in the natural, clean my hurts or wash away the blood.

So, it's difficult to put into descriptive words. Trying to put the supernatural into natural terms doesn't mesh very well and it certainly doesn't make sense to the rational mind.

I merely cracked the door of my heart and life and asked for His help. It was a moment of humility birthed out of tragedy *(mostly self inflicted)*

Actually, looking back, it was scary in a way. I'd never acknowledged I wasn't as tough as I thought I was, I'd never asked for help from anybody for anything, and I'd certainly never considered God being the source of that help. It was new territory I'd never tread until then. *smiles to self* Yeah, I remember it well...so well.

My outlook changed, my mind shifted, my thoughts improved. Things just started "falling into place". It truly was a supernatural process that changed everything about my life...to God be the Glory.

I resist adding a "preemptive strike" here.
I'll just leave it at that I suppose.
Jesus was a man, do you know that?

You are a human right? Flesh is flesh, it is that simple and Jesus flat out told us that none were righteous and holy but the father, but Jesus claimed the father was inside him, and he was one with the father, and still a human. When Jesus claimed to be the son of God, people scoffed and then Jesus reminded them,'' Why do you scoff at me for saying I am the son of God when God has clearly looked at you and said,'' YE ARE GODS.''

If you are a human in a sinful body of flesh, your flesh is never going to be justified, but if you have the Holy spirt in you, what are you?

Why does Zechariah say that those of Judah and the house of David will be as God?

There is only one spirit.
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Old 03-29-2019, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,960 posts, read 8,406,922 times
Reputation: 15556
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
Well...ok, one clarification. When I say "Jesus" I'm saying Jesus/God. He, Jesus, said I am the Father are One. So, that's who I refer on this.

Now...this is difficult to explain because of the nature of the help He gave me. No, He didn't reach down and physically give me a hand and lift me up, He didn't literally reach down and dry the tears in my eyes, He didn't, in the natural, clean my hurts or wash away the blood.

So, it's difficult to put into descriptive words. Trying to put the supernatural into natural terms doesn't mesh very well and it certainly doesn't make sense to the rational mind.

I merely cracked the door of my heart and life and asked for His help. It was a moment of humility birthed out of tragedy *(mostly self inflicted)*

Actually, looking back, it was scary in a way. I'd never acknowledged I wasn't as tough as I thought I was, I'd never asked for help from anybody for anything, and I'd certainly never considered God being the source of that help. It was new territory I'd never tread until then. *smiles to self* Yeah, I remember it well...so well.

My outlook changed, my mind shifted, my thoughts improved. Things just started "falling into place". It truly was a supernatural process that changed everything about my life...to God be the Glory.

I resist adding a "preemptive strike" here.
I'll just leave it at that I suppose.
Would it be an accurate summary to say that you believe in God because of your revelatory, transformative experience? Have you had any other experiences or reasons to believe in God?

I am glad that you were able to get through your life crisis, and if religion is the tool that helped you, great. I truly hope that it continues to be a positive force in your life.

Can you understand that I donít find your story convincing? It isnít that I donít believe you, I see no reason to doubt you. The thing that I donít find convincing is that this is evidence for a god, or sufficient reason for me to believe in one.

How does your theistic belief effect your daily life? Does your belief cause you to ou sh your theology onto others? Do you care if I donít believe? Do you desire to have children raised with a religious education? Does your belief causeyou to want creationism taught in schools, or to prevent sex Ed from being taught in schools? Do you object to LGBT individuals living their lives as they wish?

I know that those issues can be hotly debated. I am curious to see if your personal revelation extends to others.
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Old 03-29-2019, 09:28 PM
 
Location: USA
15,906 posts, read 8,170,566 times
Reputation: 2103
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
Well...ok, one clarification. When I say "Jesus" I'm saying Jesus/God. He, Jesus, said I am the Father are One. So, that's who I refer on this.

Now...this is difficult to explain because of the nature of the help He gave me. No, He didn't reach down and physically give me a hand and lift me up, He didn't literally reach down and dry the tears in my eyes, He didn't, in the natural, clean my hurts or wash away the blood.

So, it's difficult to put into descriptive words. Trying to put the supernatural into natural terms doesn't mesh very well and it certainly doesn't make sense to the rational mind.

I merely cracked the door of my heart and life and asked for His help. It was a moment of humility birthed out of tragedy *(mostly self inflicted)*

Actually, looking back, it was scary in a way. I'd never acknowledged I wasn't as tough as I thought I was, I'd never asked for help from anybody for anything, and I'd certainly never considered God being the source of that help. It was new territory I'd never tread until then. *smiles to self* Yeah, I remember it well...so well.

My outlook changed, my mind shifted, my thoughts improved. Things just started "falling into place". It truly was a supernatural process that changed everything about my life...to God be the Glory.

I resist adding a "preemptive strike" here.
I'll just leave it at that I suppose.
Thanks for putting that into words. I'm guessing that took a fair bit of courage on your part.

It's funny, I've written very similar things to this: "My outlook changed, my mind shifted, my thoughts improved. Things just started "falling into place". It truly was a supernatural process that changed everything about my life...".

I came to it from the opposite direction though. Where you thought you were tough and never asked for help, I cried out for help on a regular basis but felt guilty about that, because I didn't feel I deserved it. It wasn't until my death grip on the bible and my former Christian beliefs had been significantly loosened that I began to experience some improvement. And the floodgates really opened once I completely let go of those things.


What I take away from that is that God is willing to meet us wherever we are, and in whatever form best suits us, whether it's as Jesus, some other religious figure, or as something entirely different and, perhaps, unrecognizable as God to most people because it doesn't conform to traditional religious concepts of God. I think it may be that the former things are passing away, and God is revealing Godself in new ways to many. Perhaps some atheists are even further along the path than many religious people if they have truly let go of those religious concepts (although it seems to me from discussions on this forum, that many have not).


But, I don't say any of that to diminish what you have experienced. In whatever form God has made Godself evident to you and lifted you out of the pit you said you were in, that's what was perfect for you, and I'm happy for you. I hope you'll continue to follow where the God who is love leads you...

There's a biblical prayer that was instrumental in setting me free from the religious doctrines that did so much damage to me and stunted my spiritual growth for so long (no, I don't think Christianity stunts everyone's spiritual growth ). It's a prayer I still, even as an ex-Christian, keep close to my heart, as I'm sure you do:


For this reason I bow my knees before the Parent, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, that God would grant you, according to the riches of God's glory, to be strengthened with power through God's Spirit in the inner person, so that Christ may dwell in your heart through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God...

Now to God who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us, be the glory.
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Old 03-30-2019, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,341,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
Now, some will find what Iím about to say as being very odd, to put it mildly---yet, I speak it in full truth. I care about each person here far more than most would imagine. I say that in all honesty. I continue to call out so many of the names here in prayer though Iíve been told by some to not do as such for them.

My prayer is simple. That God will show you that ďglimpseĒ of Himself as I mentioned in another post. A Glimpse that cannot be ignored. A Glimpse that would dare you to just consider there is moreÖmuch moreÖto this life.
Well, atheists. Have any of you had a sudden conversions to Christianity since CV has been praying for us?

No...me neither!
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Old 03-30-2019, 01:32 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,487 posts, read 10,408,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Well, atheists. Have any of you had a sudden conversions to Christianity since CV has been praying for us?

No...me neither!
Yes! I had some wonderful pizza last night from Papa Murphy's. Oh wait...that was just pizza...not a religious experience.
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Old 03-30-2019, 04:44 AM
 
13,493 posts, read 4,996,362 times
Reputation: 1365
I know one thing. There is food. so denying all food because one doesn't like pizza is quite the problem for those of us just trying to figure out how food works and why people eat it.
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