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Old 05-21-2019, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,786 posts, read 19,886,317 times
Reputation: 23202

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Another failed analogy. The tug felt from the trout is because there was an actual physical creature on the line.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:32 AM
 
8,822 posts, read 5,123,147 times
Reputation: 10086
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
I reread my original "Pizza Post". And, I've read the replies.

There is one aspect I would like to mention. It regards the "F" word....Faith.

Many, understandably, question how one can believe in something they can't see, touch, feel. The logical mind simply says, "That's not logical" (or, "That's illogical" if you're a Spock fan) Agreed. Truth that. Therefore; I understand why many struggle with the concept.

Yet, for the Christian, Faith is paramount. Now, the Bible explains faith as "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen." So, this says there will indeed be things that can't be seen or touched.

Equally, the Bible says "Without Faith, it's impossible to please God." God is really big on this faith and trust thing. Why? I don't know...He's God, I'm not.

So, how would I explain faith? I'll use an analogy I've heard. It's something akin to fishing. When that big trout hits your lure, you may not see him, you may not yet be able to touch him...but, you KNOW he's there. Right Troutdude? That pull and that tug confirm...he's there.

That's me. I feel God in my spirit, in my heart. I feel the tug, I feel the pull. And, yes, I've seen His movement in my life. I've seen the results of faith.

It's not just a mere emotion. I know emotions. I get a 'happy spirit' when my Cardinals defeat the dreaded Cubs. Yeah, I do. This faith thing? Far deeper, far more lasting...far more real.

Finally...does my faith get tested? Sure it does. It makes NO sense in the natural. It can't be explained by some scientific theory or study. (Sidenote? Can everything be explained, beyond doubt, by Science?)

So, I totally understand why so many soundly reject the notion. As I said in the OP---I did likewise for many years.

Anyway...so it goes. Faith endures. I do my best to just believe God is telling the truth. Some will get this, some will not.
More correctly, you interpret these feelings of yours as being from God. Things work out nicely in your life and you interpret that as coming from God.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,446 posts, read 10,395,261 times
Reputation: 20300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
More correctly, you interpret these feelings of yours as being from God. Things work out nicely in your life and you interpret that as coming from God.
I watching the film "Night School" last night (Kevin Hart), and one of the characters would tell the rest about horrible aspects of her life...and then at the end she'd say how blessed she was.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:13 AM
 
Location: USA
3,427 posts, read 1,256,851 times
Reputation: 1012
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
I reread my original "Pizza Post". And, I've read the replies.

There is one aspect I would like to mention. It regards the "F" word....Faith.

Many, understandably, question how one can believe in something they can't see, touch, feel. The logical mind simply says, "That's not logical" (or, "That's illogical" if you're a Spock fan) Agreed. Truth that. Therefore; I understand why many struggle with the concept.

Yet, for the Christian, Faith is paramount. Now, the Bible explains faith as "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen." So, this says there will indeed be things that can't be seen or touched.

Equally, the Bible says "Without Faith, it's impossible to please God." God is really big on this faith and trust thing. Why? I don't know...He's God, I'm not.

So, how would I explain faith? I'll use an analogy I've heard. It's something akin to fishing. When that big trout hits your lure, you may not see him, you may not yet be able to touch him...but, you KNOW he's there. Right Troutdude? That pull and that tug confirm...he's there.

That's me. I feel God in my spirit, in my heart. I feel the tug, I feel the pull. And, yes, I've seen His movement in my life. I've seen the results of faith.

It's not just a mere emotion. I know emotions. I get a 'happy spirit' when my Cardinals defeat the dreaded Cubs. Yeah, I do. This faith thing? Far deeper, far more lasting...far more real.

Finally...does my faith get tested? Sure it does. It makes NO sense in the natural. It can't be explained by some scientific theory or study. (Sidenote? Can everything be explained, beyond doubt, by Science?)

So, I totally understand why so many soundly reject the notion. As I said in the OP---I did likewise for many years.

Anyway...so it goes. Faith endures. I do my best to just believe God is telling the truth. Some will get this, some will not.
Muslims have faith. Hindus have faith. Worshipers of Odin and Zeus had faith. The "faithful" of every religious belief that ever existed, and there have been thousands, had genuine deep devotion for their deity of choice. Billions of people deeply devoted to thousands of beliefs. They spoke and communed with their deity. Small children have faith in Santa. Why? Because their parents told them that Santa is real, and their peers all believe that Santa is real. (My mommy said so and everyone knows it's true.) And small children even have direct proof that Santa is real, in the form of the presents that "Santa" leaves them.

Faith is the act of adults being assured by other like minded adults that it is not only okay but admirable to believe, on "faith," in their shared form of make believe.

The question now becomes, do you consider the above statement to be offensive and "hostile?" Because there is no hostile intent in what I wrote, and if someone takes offence at being taken to task, then that is simply an unavoidable reaction to being contradicted.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,446 posts, read 10,395,261 times
Reputation: 20300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
Muslims have faith. Hindus have faith. Worshipers of Odin and Zeus had faith. The "faithful" of every religious belief that ever existed, and there have been thousands, had genuine deep devotion for their deity of choice. Billions of people deeply devoted to thousands of beliefs. They spoke and communed with their deity. Small children have faith in Santa. Why? Because their parents told them that Santa is real, and their peers all believe that Santa is real. (My mommy said so and everyone knows it's true.) And small children even have direct proof that Santa is real, in the form of the presents that "Santa" leaves them.

Faith is the act of adults being assured by other like minded adults that it is not only okay but admirable to believe, on "faith," in their shared form of make believe.
I've often said that faith can be good UNTIL the faithful person can't tell the difference between faith and fact.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:37 AM
 
39,033 posts, read 10,825,389 times
Reputation: 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I've often said that faith can be good UNTIL the faithful person can't tell the difference between faith and fact.
It's even worse when Fact is disregarded as the mere Opinion of scientists because of faith.
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:11 PM
 
10,523 posts, read 12,733,337 times
Reputation: 3864
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
It's even worse when Fact is disregarded as the mere Opinion of scientists because of faith.
True. Because that meaning of the word is completely different than the Christian one.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:09 PM
 
39,033 posts, read 10,825,389 times
Reputation: 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
True. Because that meaning of the word is completely different than the Christian one.
Is it? I see it as exactly the same. Except that the God -claim gets dragged into it and the rules of Logic get dismissed as 'mere Expert Opinion' when they don't support the Claims of Faith.

You may be distinguishing between the science -dismissing claims of the Creationists and the science -accepting God -claim of non -fundy religion. Point taken. But there comes a time when what the evidence and logic (n. b logic and 'common sense' are not the same thing) will be sidelined by the religious believer in favour of Faith.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:36 PM
 
10,523 posts, read 12,733,337 times
Reputation: 3864
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Is it? I see it as exactly the same. Except that the God -claim gets dragged into it and the rules of Logic get dismissed as 'mere Expert Opinion' when they don't support the Claims of Faith.

You may be distinguishing between the science -dismissing claims of the Creationists and the science -accepting God -claim of non -fundy religion. Point taken. But there comes a time when what the evidence and logic (n. b logic and 'common sense' are not the same thing) will be sidelined by the religious believer in favour of Faith.
If anything, the difference is that Christian faith has more evidence. Whereas faith in science is based upon a trust of things that most people don't understand, but have simply been told.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,446 posts, read 10,395,261 times
Reputation: 20300
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
If anything, the difference is that Christian faith has more evidence. Whereas faith in science is based upon a trust of things that most people don't understand, but have simply been told.
I can't believe you actually wrote that. Have you no shame?
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