U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-16-2019, 03:37 AM
 
12,124 posts, read 4,609,627 times
Reputation: 1282

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Amen!

The error of the OP is in the notion that it is only God who desires our worship. In fact, we're built to worship God. That's what gives us comfort and joy: that we are His possessions. We are the property--the slaves, the bondservants--of Jesus, who purchased us with His Holy Blood. We were purchased at an exceedingly high price! That should tell you how valuable we are!

So we are slaves. We are not our own. That's true now and forever. But although the relationship is not egalitarian in nature, it is the best possible one for us! The relationship is not based on fear, as there's no fear in love. Rather, we are slaves who will serve as eternal objects of the Master's love and kindness. And we will love and worship Him in return because He loved us first and chose to save us!
like having children and thinking we are masters of them?

I get that some people think that, its evolution. why other believers defend that for team unity is another story entirely.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-16-2019, 08:07 AM
 
4,035 posts, read 1,482,138 times
Reputation: 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Amen!

The error of the OP is in the notion that it is only God who desires our worship. In fact, we're built to worship God. That's what gives us comfort and joy: that we are His possessions. We are the property--the slaves, the bondservants--of Jesus, who purchased us with His Holy Blood. We were purchased at an exceedingly high price! That should tell you how valuable we are!

So we are slaves. We are not our own. That's true now and forever. But although the relationship is not egalitarian in nature, it is the best possible one for us! The relationship is not based on fear, as there's no fear in love. Rather, we are slaves who will serve as eternal objects of the Master's love and kindness. And we will love and worship Him in return because He loved us first and chose to save us!
Here is my opinion.

Nobody purchased anybody.

We are on our own, and everyone is responsible for his/her own deeds.

You do good, you get good - you do bad, you might face the consequences. Fair, just and logical.

Otherwise, Jesus seem to have made a wrong business deal by purchasing Hitler and people like Ted Bundy, and 100’s of child molesters in the church, 100 and thousands to rapists, killers who took the lives of innocent people, including women and kids, through out human history.

If cronyism through Jesus helps them get away with it then it’s not fair to people like mother Theresa.

What you are saying is there is no right or wrong - do whatever you want to do without any worry because “Jesus has already purchased you” - YEAH RIGHT !!

Good luck with that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2019, 08:10 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,535 posts, read 4,548,252 times
Reputation: 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
You are on a totally different page - yet wrong nonetheless.

Please read my comments again in post # 16




You are incorrect on two counts (sorry don't mean to sound crude).

First, I said HUMANS are not obliged to worship anymore in Heaven. And what you are saying is, Satan was asked to prostrate to Adam. Yes Prostration is a major form of worship *BUT* is Satan a HUMAN? No!

Second. I am talking about people who have lived a life on earth, who have tried to do good works, tried to stay away from bad deeds, tried to live a morally conscious and peaceful life, and tried to stay within the boundaries described by God - which then lead them to enter into heaven, those people have no obligation to worship God anymore, after they are entered in heaven.

What you are saying is, an altogether different incident, yet it is still wrong because a human was not asked to worship or pray in heaven.

In the Christian doctrine, I think the human residents of heaven mostly do nothing but worship God - if that pleases you?

And since I am not an expert of ancient Hebrew, I can't answer your question about the name "Adam". Google could be your best friend.
1. I was mislead by you writing "Heaven has no works or duties or responsibilities..."

You mean then to say that Heaven DOES have work, duties, and responsibilities for Angels and Genies (like Satan/Iblis)? But not ever to People and rats and ants and fungus....

2. Yes to the above? Then, it is only an irresponsible heaven for humans but the angels, good genies, and Allah are still RESPONSIBLE beings, no?

Or is future heaven going to mean no toiling for the Angels and Beavers as well us the desire-prone humans?

3. In the Christian doctrine, human residents of heaven experience eternal bliss and no boundaries other than sin (doing that which God does not want).
As such, they will be unable to sin (whatever that means) because God is "Always the Same" as Abrahamic Jewish scripture states. Thus God will also want (or instead DESERVE and half-heartedly require) eternal worship.

So no, although this is a question many Christians wrestle with, depending on your particular "Christian view" of it, you will not necessarily be required to worship God in the same way you did on Earth---but all of the time and for all of eternity.

For example, the Mormons think if you are good enough you will rule a Planet for eternity.

The Catholics think if you are good enough God allows you to listen to and answer prayers miraculously on his behalf ("Body of Christ" Saints).

The Baptists think if you are good enough you will have houses of diamond and streets of gold (not much use for those if you were not using the streets but were instead only worshiping as is done on Earth).

4. The question on ancient Hebrew was largely rhetorical and to the benefit of memory. I studied non-comparative Abrahamic Monotheism in the academic setting many years ago.

Last edited by LuminousTruth; 03-16-2019 at 08:27 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2019, 08:29 AM
 
4,035 posts, read 1,482,138 times
Reputation: 1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
I was mislead by you writing "Heaven has no works or duties or responsibilities..."

You mean then to say that Heaven DOES have work, duties, and responsibilities for Angels and Genies (like Satan/Iblis)? But not ever to People and rats and ants and fungus....

Yes? It is only an irresponsible heaven for humans but the angels and Allah are still RESPONSIBLE beings, no?

Or is future heaven going to mean no toiling for the Angels and Beavers as well us the desire-prone humans?
Future heaven has any responsibilities on angels? I don’t know.

Human residents of heaven are cleaned from any evil desires, and they don’t have any responsibility imposed upo them.

Heaven does not have satan in it, and heaven also has no obnoxious stuff in it - otherwise it’s not heaven.

God has any responsibility in heaven or in this life, towards humans?
No. God does whatever he wants and he is not answerable to anyone. That’s what makes him God.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2019, 08:43 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,535 posts, read 4,548,252 times
Reputation: 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
So... why would humans be “obliged to worship” BEFORE going to Heaven?
As previously stated: Muhammadan Islam guarantees that it is the easiest religion to get to heaven with. (I think venerated and canonized Chrisitan scripture states that only few will make it, but it also says that many will be saved. Fancy that, it welcomes you to believe whatever you want about that, because it agrees with both views).

So to put in colorfully:
They are buying a discount airplane ticket card to heaven, the more money/value they put into it, the more of a guarantee it is that they will be able to arrive at their desired Reststop, instead of crashing and burning with a cheaper flight.

In Islam, Christians and Jews, on the other hand, are taking the "old rickety" rail-system, and their "likelihood" of getting into heaven merely for being "People of the Book" is lowered. They will have to be extra saintly to qualify as being in Submission to Allah.

People NOT of the book, (in Islam) are crossing the desert with no guide and on foot. If they dare make an idol for comfort, they should be bombed by the "very humble" airplanes.

As such, they believe that charges of "cronyism" can be lessened against them. But truly and in fairness, I don't think so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2019, 08:46 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,535 posts, read 4,548,252 times
Reputation: 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Not sure if I follow this.
Can you provide an example?
He is talking about thought-crime.

To put in colorfully:

If you work with the intent of retiring, then you don't really "mean" the work, and thus the work is illegitimate. Thus, thought/emotion/feeling-crime.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2019, 08:49 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,535 posts, read 4,548,252 times
Reputation: 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Example of what? The post I quoted seems to suggest what I concluded and if you intended some other meaning or result from the forms required in Islam then you should explain why my conclusion is wrong.
He was merely asking for an example of what your "heart" sentence meant. It was rather jargon-laden.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2019, 08:52 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,535 posts, read 4,548,252 times
Reputation: 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55 View Post
When I was a Christian, I was convinced that heaven was an endless golf course with fishing breaks.
When I was a Christian, heaven was killed for me the moment they replaced all of the flora and fauna in Land Garden from Genesis with lifeless crystals and metals in Sky Citadel from Revelation.

Last edited by LuminousTruth; 03-16-2019 at 09:15 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2019, 09:45 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,535 posts, read 4,548,252 times
Reputation: 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Amen!

The error of the OP is in the notion that it is only God who desires our worship. In fact, we're built to worship God. That's what gives us comfort and joy: that we are His possessions. We are the property--the slaves, the bondservants--of Jesus, who purchased us with His Holy Blood. We were purchased at an exceedingly high price! That should tell you how valuable we are!

So we are slaves. We are not our own. That's true now and forever. But although the relationship is not egalitarian in nature, it is the best possible one for us! The relationship is not based on fear, as there's no fear in love. Rather, we are slaves who will serve as eternal objects of the Master's love and kindness. And we will love and worship Him in return because He loved us first and chose to save us!
In Islam, the only thing "built to" like robots are the Angels.

They do not see humans as Allah's "possessions" but only as "creations with free will" (thus not objects/slaves/possessions like Angels are).

But even lambs to the slaughter and beasts of burden seek after perceived comfort (power, safety, abundance) and joy (entertainment, interaction, gratification).

A criminal buys prostitutes and slaves,
And only a warped mind buys such animals from himself with his own partial assisted murder-suicide as his own child/grandchild.

And only some people have masochist genes/psyches and love having a master,
but all participants are complicit to the crimes to human dignity.

The best of all possible worlds Candide! We'll see. You wait in faithful procrastination for your fantasies or work in burden-filled effort to meet them. The self-evident world will not cease while we day-dream.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2019, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Germany
3,738 posts, read 688,895 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Amen!

The error of the OP is in the notion that it is only God who desires our worship. In fact, we're built to worship God. That's what gives us comfort and joy: that we are His possessions. We are the property--the slaves, the bondservants--of Jesus, who purchased us with His Holy Blood. We were purchased at an exceedingly high price! That should tell you how valuable we are!

So we are slaves. We are not our own. That's true now and forever. But although the relationship is not egalitarian in nature, it is the best possible one for us! The relationship is not based on fear, as there's no fear in love. Rather, we are slaves who will serve as eternal objects of the Master's love and kindness. And we will love and worship Him in return because He loved us first and chose to save us!
Which raises the question, how do you know this?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top