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Old 03-24-2019, 03:00 PM
 
12,683 posts, read 4,814,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
That is right, religions are more like peaceful or unpeaceful gangs than political parties, more like political parties than clubs, more like clubs then books, and more like books than utensils.

I've only seen a few religions where the leadership is elected rather than accepted, and where accepting and unaccepting the religion is seen as inconsequential and with no need for membership to be socially enforced.

Communist clubs, White Supremacy clubs, Biker gang clubs, etc are often monitored (since the rich see them as a threat to their culture).

Fire is mindless and is not composed of a corporation of people.

Guns are also mindless and cause explicit physical harm, even if they psychologically empower some people and perhaps psychologically derange some other people.

Cars have computers in them but are not corporations. They also require testing on all ends (cars and drivers), monitored licensing privileges, mandatory accident and damage insurance, and a traffic police force to make sure order is maintained. Religions have not been either as destructive or as useful as cars.
yeah, I am ok with clubs. Yes, clubs can look like gangs, in fact, some clubs are gangs. And we can even make well meaning clubs look like gangs.

the tool reference is more of an analogy in how to handle some clubs. some of them need to be monitored like fire, free to use but you can't burn people down. Guns, they are what they are, nucs need far more control. cars, they kill and Maim millions but are allowed to continue. Alcohol and sugar, I have no idea why they are not monitored far more closely. all analogy's fall short.
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:06 PM
 
12,683 posts, read 4,814,957 times
Reputation: 1322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
Don't know too many atheist gangs, to be honest.

In fact, I doubt many gangs at all care about religion.

However, gangs do tend to have a lot of religious people in them as members who may be in devout practice. Namely because a lot of gangs are made up of homogenous ethnic groups that tend to have a ot of religion in their cultures to begin with. For instance, Latino gangs tend to have a lot of Catholic members and white racist gangs tend to be primarily Christian.
the one thing that makes religion far more dangerous is that personality disorders can form up under a statement of belief and the regulars will be lured in. Like "God has chosen you". That can draw people to a 'religious gang" like moths to a light. all to often, they regulars find out to late.

atheism, probably has the same number of personality disorders in it, its jut that there is no catch phrase for them link up under. some go save the earth, some go play with guns, some go and support their sports team. The net effect is that they are diluted and less troublesome.
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Old 03-27-2019, 07:31 PM
 
138 posts, read 80,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
the one thing that makes religion far more dangerous is that personality disorders can form up under a statement of belief and the regulars will be lured in. Like "God has chosen you". That can draw people to a 'religious gang" like moths to a light. all to often, they regulars find out to late.

atheism, probably has the same number of personality disorders in it, its jut that there is no catch phrase for them link up under. some go save the earth, some go play with guns, some go and support their sports team. The net effect is that they are diluted and less troublesome.
I donít agree with this. Maybe not atheism, but capitalism (worship of money and material possession) is evidently going to be the end of the world (due to its environmental impact).
Furthermore, idealistic ideologies, religious or not, always have a capacity to lure people into stupid things. Look at fascism and communism through history for example.
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Old 03-27-2019, 07:52 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
1,924 posts, read 405,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradpaisley94 View Post
I donít agree with this. Maybe not atheism, but capitalism (worship of money and material possession) is evidently going to be the end of the world (due to its environmental impact).
Furthermore, idealistic ideologies, religious or not, always have a capacity to lure people into stupid things. Look at fascism and communism through history for example.
Not sure what capitalism (or the end of the world) has to do with how religion is often seen as something negative.
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Old 03-27-2019, 11:44 PM
 
38,391 posts, read 10,509,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
bad people do bad things with care, but mostly with guns when they are bad.

cars require driving training, insurance, licensing, inspection, manufacturing standards.
This is the point. Cars kill people. But they are 'technology out of the bag'. You couldn't get rid of them even if people only liked them (like guns) rather than their uses. But (like a lot of things we shake our heads over today) getting rid of them is not the answer. The answer is to address the problems that arise and try to solve them. After all, that's what governments are elected to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
You mean we anti-religious folks have an agenda? I must have missed a memo.

Unless, of course, making sure that religion obeys the Constitution, stays out of the government, and keeps its religious dogma to itself.

Is that the agenda you mean?
That's the one I mean.

Ah I already said that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradpaisley94 View Post
I don’t agree with this. Maybe not atheism, but capitalism (worship of money and material possession) is evidently going to be the end of the world (due to its environmental impact).
Furthermore, idealistic ideologies, religious or not, always have a capacity to lure people into stupid things. Look at fascism and communism through history for example.
I think that you have something here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Not sure what capitalism (or the end of the world) has to do with how religion is often seen as something negative.
I think that atheism (especially in America) has begun to see an alliance between religious and secular authority, and it's noticeably right wing conservative capitalism that seems to make cause with religion. They rely upon each other for mutual support.

As I say, that's what atheists seems to have been seeing.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-27-2019 at 11:54 PM..
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Old 03-28-2019, 01:04 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
1,924 posts, read 405,180 times
Reputation: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post



I think that atheism (especially in America) has begun to see an alliance between religious and secular authority, and it's noticeably right wing conservative capitalism that seems to make cause with religion. They rely upon each other for mutual support.

.
Are you translating for that poster? (Because thatís not anything close to what he said
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Old 03-28-2019, 04:08 AM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,837 posts, read 3,320,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Not sure what capitalism (or the end of the world) has to do with how religion is often seen as something negative.
Aaaand ... this is a big reason why I'm just bowing out at the end of the week. Thanks for that demonstration.

If you don't like hearing what is being said - just start screaming about how off-topic it is.

Incredible.

Not that I haven't been warning everyone on this forum about the resurgence of fascism for years. But who would listen to little ol' me.

Why offer a refutation or a counter-argument when I can just claim it's off-topic. Everyone knows that off-topic things aren't real, right?

What always gets me is that, whenever a forum decides to impose or enforce a rule, the posters turn a, perhaps, reasonable rule into outright fascism - because the posters want to use the rule to their advantage. I very much doubt, Mr. Cowboy, that you have any interest in helping the mods enforce rules. All you want to do is *use* the rule to silence an opinion you happen not to like.

Except I don't see your name in bold print. So why not let the mods decide what is or isn't off-topic and whether or not it is worth taking action against, hmm?

Otherwise I'm going to call you out on your shenaningans.

Oh yeah - and the reason why capitalism and the end of the world *does* have a lot to do with religion being seen as negative is - well - isn't it amazing that the fundevangelists in this country have stood up to be counted with Trump - the most ammoral, misogynistic, racist, and bigoted president we've ever had in modern history? Remember how, before marriage equality was finally passed, these same people kept shouting about "family values?" Remember that? And yet they'll happily ally themselves with an administration that represents every moral sin the fundevangelists screamed about since 2008.

What's worse is that the fundevangelists are joined at the hip with Darwinistic capitalism. They push for the very things our nation and our planet can no longer afford to keep doing. The two topics have *a lot* to do with each other - and I could write at length about how. Unfortunately you'll likely dismiss everything as "off topic" or my post will be too political - or something like that. Who knows anymore.

Quote:
I don’t agree with this. Maybe not atheism, but capitalism (worship of money and material possession) is evidently going to be the end of the world (due to its environmental impact).
By the way, Mr. Brad - I wholeheartedly agree with this prediction. Even if it doesn't end the world, it will end the United States as we know it. While the rest of the world is practically trampling each other in an effort to develop wind and solar power or buying electric cars at a prodigal pace - we here in America are trying to reopen old coal mines, fracking the continent into pieces, giving a $10.5 billion subsidy every year to the already record-profit-making oil industry, and pushing the sale of gigantic "land yachts" that get 10 miles to the gallon. The GOP wants to abolish the EPA, repeal the Endangered Species Act, and essentially beholden our nation to the Middle East and South America up until the time when it all collapses.

Because what we're doing now is unsustainable. Automation is going to drive this country - and probably every other country - into socialism. The old method of "get a job, earn a paycheck, survive" is already obsolete. There are not enough jobs for an ever-increasing population and, in this country, higher education is considered "evil" from the right-wing perspective because too many college students lose their faith - or at least their fanaticism and fundamentalism - once they get to college. The end result is that less than a quarter of the U.S. population has a bachelor's degree - and there just aren't enough jobs to provide 75% of the population with low-skill, low-education, low-responsibility - and ultimately low wage - positions. The age of high-paying manufacturing jobs has been long over thanks to Reagan and the trade industry cannot support having 250 million carpenters and plumbers.

And yes - there is that wild and crazy hoax: climate change. What worries me is that I'm still relatively young whereas I know most posters on this board are most likely over 50 - and many even older than that. Will I, as well as the rest of my generation, be the ones in charge of the planet when this careless actions of this myopic generation come home to roost?

What's even more worrisome is that our population will be utterly paralyzed to do anything about it. Why? Because too many people are wrapped up in their faith and religion. Instead of doing anything about climate change or wage inequity or mass poverty, what they'll do is run to their churches and pray really hard - because maybe then Jesus or God or someone will help.

But what I've seen is that Jesus or God is only good for finding car keys and helping football teams win games. When it really counts - like, say, during the Holocaust - God cowers under the bed. I very much doubt prayers are going to help AT ALL when sea levels rise, plains turn to desert, mass starvation begins, wars are fought over clean water supplies - and all the rest of it.

Sure, some rational Christians will likely rise to the challenge - but the people at the forefront will almost certainly be atheists and other non-believers. Problems of rampant capitalism, wealth and income inequality, climate change, and a little immature boy sitting in the Oval Office have been concerns among the atheist community for quite a few years now.
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Old 03-28-2019, 09:23 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
1,924 posts, read 405,180 times
Reputation: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
Aaaand ... this is a big reason why I'm just bowing out at the end of the week. Thanks for that demonstration.

If you don't like hearing what is being said - just start screaming about how off-topic it is.

Incredible.

Not that I haven't been warning everyone on this forum about the resurgence of fascism for years. But who would listen to little ol' me.

Why offer a refutation or a counter-argument when I can just claim it's off-topic. Everyone knows that off-topic things aren't real, right?

What always gets me is that, whenever a forum decides to impose or enforce a rule, the posters turn a, perhaps, reasonable rule into outright fascism - because the posters want to use the rule to their advantage. I very much doubt, Mr. Cowboy, that you have any interest in helping the mods enforce rules. All you want to do is *use* the rule to silence an opinion you happen not to like.

Except I don't see your name in bold print. So why not let the mods decide what is or isn't off-topic and whether or not it is worth taking action against, hmm?

Otherwise I'm going to call you out on your shenaningans.

Oh yeah - and the reason why capitalism and the end of the world *does* have a lot to do with religion being seen as negative is - well - isn't it amazing that the fundevangelists in this country have stood up to be counted with Trump - the most ammoral, misogynistic, racist, and bigoted president we've ever had in modern history? Remember how, before marriage equality was finally passed, these same people kept shouting about "family values?" Remember that? And yet they'll happily ally themselves with an administration that represents every moral sin the fundevangelists screamed about since 2008.

.
Whoa! In order to disagree (or agree) with something, I have to understand what the poster is saying. I simply didn’t understand the poster’s statement - and was asking for clarification - lol. Don’t pull me into your diatribe by making false accusations to me about an intent (or disagreement) that simply wasn’t there. I was not trying to get it removed or trying to do the mod’s job. (I simply couldn’t decipher it). Your personal attacks (and I don’t mean on me) have gone too far. Even as someone who is on your ‘side’ (I’m assuming you are an atheist), it’s clear you have crossed the line. You can’t keep disrespecting people as a way to convey your point in lengthy posts that focus more on criticism of posters and explanations (and what you think their intent is) than actual substance.

Last edited by CorporateCowboy; 03-28-2019 at 10:36 AM..
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Old 03-28-2019, 09:27 AM
 
38,391 posts, read 10,509,634 times
Reputation: 5036
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Are you translating for that poster? (Because that’s not anything close to what he said
I'm replying to him. I'll see whether He thinks what i said was relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Whoa - just stop. In order to disagree (or agree) with something, I have to understand what the poster is saying. I simply didn’t understand the poster’s statement - and was asking for clarification - lol. Don’t pull me into your diatribe by making false accusations to me about an intent (or disagreement) that simply wasn’t there.
I suggest that you stop taking this stuff so personally. Shirina was expressing her views. If you disagree, you can explain. if you think they are off topic, you can do something about that, but you are just stressing yourself out making it personal.
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Old 03-28-2019, 10:04 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
1,924 posts, read 405,180 times
Reputation: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I'm replying to him. I'll see whether He thinks what i said was relevant.



I suggest that you stop taking this stuff so personally. Shirina was expressing her views. If you disagree, you can explain. if you think they are off topic, you can do something about that, but you are just stressing yourself out making it personal.
I’m not stressed nor have I taken anything personally. Again, I simply asked for clarification (and was not only accused of disagreeing with a statement I couldn’t decipher but accused of trying to be a mod as well). FTR, not only was I quoted, but my name was used several times - Shirina should be able to express her views without lobbing false accusations (or using the fact I couldn’t make heads or tails out of a post, which wasn’t even made by her, as another reason she is leaving).

We can all see what he means if he posts (but you and Shirina have explained it for him so perhaps not necessary at this point); thanks for being the translator. You clearly understood his writing more than I did.

Last edited by CorporateCowboy; 03-28-2019 at 10:45 AM..
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