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Old 03-22-2019, 09:07 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
1,436 posts, read 281,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post

The funny thing is that atheism does not claim to have a controlling influence for Good over people, so people will do bad stuff. Religion always claims to make things better.

But you bods did all the answers, already.
Neither religion nor atheism has the ability to control our thoughts or behavior (they are merely subjects) - WE do! To suggest otherwise is forfeiting the importance of individual interpretation, application, and responsibility in our own behavior (and how much WE ALLOW atheism or religion to control our thoughts/actions, good or bad).
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:48 AM
 
1,550 posts, read 1,917,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Neither religion nor atheism has the ability to control our thoughts or behavior (they are merely subjects) - WE do! To suggest otherwise is forfeiting the importance of individual interpretation, application, and responsibility in our own behavior (and how much WE ALLOW atheism or religion to control our thoughts/actions, good or bad).
Precisely! One could create a bumper sticker that says: "Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people!"

The greater and more organized a Religion becomes, moving away from independent/individual faith and practice, the more it can be used by people to control and manipulate other people. It may be unfair, given the circumstances to consider "Religion" in all it's degrees and manifestations, negative, however. Not that you are doing so Corporate, more that it is in the title of the thread.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:51 AM
 
37,610 posts, read 10,202,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Neither religion nor atheism has the ability to control our thoughts or behavior (they are merely subjects) - WE do! To suggest otherwise is forfeiting the importance of individual interpretation, application, and responsibility in our own behavior (and how much WE ALLOW atheism or religion to control our thoughts/actions, good or bad).
As Mr Spock said - Isn't that what I just said, doctor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShouldIMoveOrStayPut...? View Post
Precisely! One could create a bumper sticker that says: "Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people!"

The greater and more organized a Religion becomes, moving away from independent/individual faith and practice, the more it can be used by people to control and manipulate other people. It may be unfair, given the circumstances to consider "Religion" in all it's degrees and manifestations, negative, however. Not that you are doing so Corporate, more that it is in the title of the thread.

You nailed it. Rational humanism empowers critical thinking, religion emphasises subordinating individuality to authority.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:06 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
1,436 posts, read 281,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
As Mr Spock said - Isn't that what I just said, doctor?



No, you said ‘religion always claims to make things better’ (post 11). Religion doesn’t claim anything - people do. It’s in the application - not the subject itself. Sometimes it does influence one’s behavior positively and for the better. And other times, it influences in a negative way. That’s why it goes back to my original point (post #2) - religion in and of itself shouldn’t be seen as negative or positive. It’s all in the application.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:14 AM
 
2,684 posts, read 1,447,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Yes, it can give people a spurious sense of self -confidence. And that's Ok when it directs them to positive goals. But it can be a real nuisance when the goals are Not positive, but they are impervious to hearing it because they have been made to feel Confident by religion.

As the OP, these really are stock apologetics for Christianity and having a Bash at secularism, blaming the evils of the world today on secularism, never mind that Religion is supposed to be winning and Atheism is a tiny minority, and of course blaming atheism for Stalin and Pol pot (Hitler how being known to be a God -believer and even a kind of Jesus -believer) when all the Bads of Religion is blamed on People, not religion.

The funny thing is that atheism does not claim to have a controlling influence for Good over people, so people will do bad stuff. Religion always claims to make things better.

But you bods did all the answers, already.
I agree with you, Transponder.

My question is that do the negative goals break 'the rules'? If they do, then humanity as a whole has to address it. But if they don't, then these are behaviors that make people uncomfortable, as you say 'a real nuisance.' Reacting negatively to them is maladaptive, in my opinion. People eventually become proud of being a nuisance.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:16 AM
 
2,684 posts, read 1,447,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
No, you said ‘religion always claims to make things better’ (post 11). Religion doesn’t claim anything - people do. It’s in the application - not the subject itself. Sometimes it does influence one’s behavior positively and for the better. And other times, it influences in a negative way. That’s why it goes back to my original point (post #2) - religion in and of itself shouldn’t be seen as negative or positive. It’s all in the application.
Application how? To one's life or to society?
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:23 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
1,436 posts, read 281,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
Application how? To one's life or to society?
People only have the ability to apply their interpretation of a subject to their own behavior. Unfortunately, not everyone’s mind is rational or healthy - and that’s when the negative influence can materialize.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:34 AM
 
37,610 posts, read 10,202,688 times
Reputation: 4983
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
No, you said ‘religion always claims to make things better’ (post 11). Religion doesn’t claim anything - people do. It’s in the application - not the subject itself. Sometimes it does influence one’s behavior positively and for the better. And other times, it influences in a negative way. That’s why it goes back to my original point (post #2) - religion in and of itself shouldn’t be seen as negative or positive. It’s all in the application.
Again, isn't that what I just said, doctor? Anyone can ague that a book or a political party or a retail company did not do something - it was 'people'. It is a pointless point. I will not be addressing it again.

Talk to some Christians. Use your chop -logic on them.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Georgia
3,797 posts, read 1,360,470 times
Reputation: 2873
Religion is man made, so it's bound to be flawed. Faith is God made- much better.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,869 posts, read 10,111,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post
Religion is man made, so it's bound to be flawed. Faith is God made- much better.
You think that believing something is true when there is no verifiable evidence that it is and often, verifiable evidence that it isn't, is something to be proud of?
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