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Old 03-23-2019, 05:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
No, that is completely wrong.


*** nipped for space only***


They say that dumb argument as if having freedom from religion doesn't protect them, too. They would understand it if, say, the Mormons began making public policy that went against fundamentalist Christianity. Those radicals are *not* in the majority so they stand as much risk of being forced to obey dogma they don't agree with as much as atheists are.

But - I digress. But only a little.
Good stuff. religion is as dangerous fire, guns, nuc's, and cars. I would toss in alcohol after reading your speech. I have to rethink how I use the term "religion is just a tool". I mean you are right, its not a hammer. But it is still not the cause?

you gave a great lesson on how I may have the weights wrong. But the fundamental issue is that "religion" is not the root cause.

so I can weight it properly, if not a hammer, then what would you compare it to?
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Old 03-23-2019, 05:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
yup ... "I hate injustice". I focus on the injustice and the people involved. When we do that we address the problem itself and tends to lead in to a certain amount of justice while maintain the focal point of liberty for all people. If i focus on the hate it leads to an representational that may, ot may not, address the problem itself.

"I hate religion" has two problems associated with it. One the "hate". and the second "religion". when we focus on "religious", it tends to be focusing on something other than the problem itself. Kind of like only addressing the blood with a serous wound. We keep cleaning up the blood and screaming at the blood like its the problem. get it, blood of christ.

"I hate religion", is just a soupy base and and leads us right into what we see here on CD. We have to outlaw, shun, minimize, and personally attack the more valid approaches to analyzing the situation so that a less valid point of view can be push on people.
I don't agree with the last paragraph. I have not been outlawed (not yet anyway), shunned, minimized or personally attacked here or anywhere for my views. Well, I take that back. Once, I was called a bot on twitter. City-data is the one place where I actually share me feelings explicitly and I have not experienced personal attacks. Yes, my positions have been challenged but attacked? No.

I do agree that focusing on religion is not identifying the whole problem. When I worked on freeing myself from my upbringing, my religious belief was the first mountain to tackle because of the fear of "turning my back" on god. That is how big religion can play a role in a person's life. Once I accepted there probably is no god, I looked back at that huge mountain and accepted that it shouldn't have been placed in front of me at all. The mountains I tackled were mountains that should not have been placed in front of me by adults who were supposed to love and care for me. It wasn't until later that I realized it was the culture that was the problem.
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Old 03-23-2019, 06:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
I don't agree with the last paragraph. I have not been outlawed (not yet anyway), shunned, minimized or personally attacked here or anywhere for my views. Well, I take that back. Once, I was called a bot on twitter. City-data is the one place where I actually share me feelings explicitly and I have not experienced personal attacks. Yes, my positions have been challenged but attacked? No.

I do agree that focusing on religion is not identifying the whole problem. When I worked on freeing myself from my upbringing, my religious belief was the first mountain to tackle because of the fear of "turning my back" on god. That is how big religion can play a role in a person's life. Once I accepted there probably is no god, I looked back at that huge mountain and accepted that it shouldn't have been placed in front of me at all. The mountains I tackled were mountains that should not have been placed in front of me by adults who were supposed to love and care for me. It wasn't until later that I realized it was the culture that was the problem.
A culture of freedom that allow parents to govern their households as they see fit, as long as it is within the law of the land?
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Old 03-23-2019, 06:31 AM
 
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yeah, youre nicer. OITR (out in the real world) When somebody tells me "its religion fault?"; I say "its religion fault you were stupid till you were forty?". or "If you were tricked, it was your parents."

its heartless, I get that, but if I am being recruited to go and hurt, mame, or otherwise abuse believers/spiritual people I am going to need to address the facts that are in front of me. I can only look at what is there.

you freed yourself from your parents (or somebody you trusted) mistakes. or, your own mistakes. If I blame religion, then I have to blame religion for my parents. My parents where theist and they lifted me over the mountain. Actually, they just lifted me up and held me. there was no maintain.
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Old 03-23-2019, 06:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
A culture of freedom that allow parents to govern their households as they see fit, as long as it is within the law of the land?
What if the culture does not support freedom?
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Old 03-23-2019, 06:52 AM
 
2,705 posts, read 1,454,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
yeah, youre nicer. OITR (out in the real world) When somebody tells me "its religion fault?"; I say "its religion fault you were stupid till you were forty?". or "If you were tricked, it was your parents."

its heartless, I get that, but if I am being recruited to go and hurt, mame, or otherwise abuse believers/spiritual people I am going to need to address the facts that are in front of me. I can only look at what is there.

you freed yourself from your parents (or somebody you trusted) mistakes. or, your own mistakes. If I blame religion, then I have to blame religion for my parents. My parents where theist and they lifted me over the mountain. Actually, they just lifted me up and held me. there was no maintain.
That is nice of you to speak of your parents that way. I do believe it is possible to be religious and be all the good things you speak of.
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Old 03-23-2019, 06:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
What if the culture does not support freedom?
Yes, there are different styles of parenting. The authoritative style doesn't seem to be that popular.
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Old 03-23-2019, 07:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
Yes, there are different styles of parenting. The authoritative style doesn't seem to be that popular.
The way it sounds is like 'authoritative style' is limited to parents. It is not. It becomes pervasive where ever these people have influence.
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Old 03-23-2019, 07:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
The way it sounds is like 'authoritative style' is limited to parents. It is not. It becomes pervasive where ever these people have influence.
Of course, no matter the Trojan Horse they ride in on.
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Old 03-23-2019, 08:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
One big reason might be that the religion I used to belong to would teach me that religion was bad and they weren't a religion, they were a relationship with Jesus Christ. They were actually a religion though (if they weren't they would be taxed for collecting money). They were just a religion a bit more self-deluded then the ones that accept and confess that they are religions.

The religious factionists have often taught that all other religions are bad. It just takes one to realise that their's is just as bad to see them all as bad.
That's true, but the actual point - the Other religions see the others as False religions. They are bad because they teach false beliefs and thus prevent whatever 'slavation' is offered.

The atheist view is that domination of social thought with doctrine rather than reasoned social behaviour is Bad.
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