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Yes. Sad, isn't it? And to my shame I used to be one of them. But curiosity got the better of me and when I actually studied the issues over a period of 5 years or so circa 2010-2015 my thinking gradually changed to what it is now. My gradual change is chronicled in all the threads I started on CD during that period. Any Christian with an open mind can do the same if they just open their minds to the truth. But their minds are shut tighter than a bank vault. Curiously enough, it was this very issue of "Nothing Fails Like Prayer" that first got me started researching why God doesn't answer prayers. Everything snowballed from there.
I think many of us have had those same questions (about the failure prayer) when we were still christians. Things began to gel more for me when I was introduced to Buddhism during my travels to Thailand and vicinity. And then a gross failure of personal prayer was the last straw.
Even when I was still a god-believer, I felt that God sent a number of teachers to the earth -- Jesus, Buddha, and so forth. One of the things that ALWAYS bothered me was how closed-minded many (most?) Christians are -- they are too much from the all or nothing at all school of "thought".
Why attribute human failings to the existence of God?
Why attribute human failings to the existence of God?
Isn't god all powerful? If so, then success and failure falls in his lap.
This reminds me of when I was principal and some unhappy teacher would say some problem was "all your fault" (meaning me), and if something was...well it was...but typically there are many hands on failure. And I'd respond with, "Okay, if you wanna put all the blame on me...fine. But when things go right, then I get all the credit, too". If god is all powerful, if he decides what does and doesn't happen, then everything good is to his credit, and everything bad is his failure. You guys can't have it whichever way is convenient to you.
You guys already know the answer you are seeking. Jesus Christ. Just like Nicodemus in John 3.
That is the reason you keep seeking "answers" from the same people over and over. I'm just a dumb know-nothing. Why would you ask me anything?
We guys (and gals) already know that's a fake answer - we are looking for the real ones.
And the reason we ask you questions is, thirdly, a decreasing hope that you will start to think about the answers (1) secondarily that the lurkers and browzers may ask themselves questions, but Firstly because you are a really good bad example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad
Interesting perspectives are from two atheist academics, who have a divergent view of this. Richard Carrier (no, there was no Jesus), and Bart Ehrman (yes, there was, but no magic).
Many YouTube videos of both expressing these views. Both can be compelling, however, I tend to side with Carrier, mostly.
I believe both of them. In fact I am a Jesus -mythicist And a 'Real Jessus'ist. That is, I think there probably was a real Jesus, but the Gospel Jesus is not only 75% Christian invention but all the 'Mythical elements' are in there.
So in a really cool way that is quite a hoot, this question - like First -cause - is academic, irrelevant and really doesn't matter a damn'.
True believers only think it does because they Use 'There was a real Jesus - even atheists admit it' as they use 'First cause' as a springboard for the leap of faith to The Gospels. They cannot see that an actual Creator does not get them to Biblegocd anymore than a failed Pharisee - messiah gets them to the Gospels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Non-sequitur.
ps. BTW that IS a positive claim.
It is - and one that i share. But just as you Think we are are erring in talking about a particular god (which we are - but not erring: the one You talk about doesn't matter) we think you are are erring in not recalling that you have been told countless times that this has explanatory small print: "So far as the evidence persuades us, and relating specifically to the Biblegod claim of course". You are making what is, to put it politely, a Technical point. To be impolite, nit -picking.
(1) the ones you are giving at the moment are like the school exam paper that came back and the answer to every question was 'God'.
He got a passing grade and the comment "He's a hopeless pupil, but he's sound on the Bible".
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-27-2019 at 02:52 PM..
Yes. Sad, isn't it? And to my shame I used to be one of them. But curiosity got the better of me and when I actually studied the issues over a period of 5 years or so circa 2010-2015 my thinking gradually changed to what it is now. My gradual change is chronicled in all the threads I started on CD during that period. Any Christian with an open mind can do the same if they just open their minds to the truth. But their minds are shut tighter than a bank vault. Curiously enough, it was this very issue of "Nothing Fails Like Prayer" that first got me started researching why God doesn't answer prayers. Everything snowballed from there.
For me, it was the racism and misogyny. It made no sense to me that a God would create two genders and one was less than. Same for race.
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Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And to my shame I used to be one of them. But curiosity got the better of me and when I actually studied the issues over a period of 5 years or so circa 2010-2015 my thinking gradually changed to what it is now. My gradual change is chronicled in all the threads I started on CD during that period. Any Christian with an open mind can do the same if they just open their minds to the truth. But their minds are shut tighter than a bank vault. Curiously enough, it was this very issue of "Nothing Fails Like Prayer" that first got me started researching why God doesn't answer prayers. Everything snowballed from there.
