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People aren't always truthful, even those we love, yet I'm certain you give weight to their words and measure them against your own scale of "reality." The Bible is not a message from the Divine whispered into someone's ear, it is a testimony of men about their understanding of the nature of God. Some of it hits a chord, and some of it is discordant. This illustrates the importance of not discarding intelligence or discernment (as jeff does) when approaching a book written by men who wanted to talk about God.
I won't deny that the Bible played a role in a knowledge about Jesus. But it played a ROLE, it was not the primary reason for my salvation. No one sat down and started reading a Bible to me while saying believe this or believe that.
Now that is the $64,000 question, and the thing that is hardest for non-believers to grasp. I could say "a small voice," and it was. I could say "it was a eureka moment in my mine," and it was. I could say "a light flashed before my eyes," and it did. But what was it? I don't know yet.
Let me give another far-out analogy for "fact" lovers. My father was in the AF from WWII through the mid-sixties. He flew on bombers for awhile as the radio communications operator. During the early fifties he took a flight from what I believe was Hunter AFB in Savannah, Georgia to Texas. On the flight someone reported an object flying on the six of their aircraft. The pilot began slowly banking and my Dad jumped up from his position to look out the window and see a saucer-shaped object, as big as their own plane, following them. He jumped on radio to tell the pilot and the pilot responded by banking more sharply to turn back toward the object. Dad jumped up to look out and he said he saw the object suddenly accelerate rapidly and swerve into a cloud bank.
The pilot reported what had been seen by several of the crew and was told to maintain radio silence. When they got to Texas the whole crew was confined overnight separate from one another, and each was questioned thoroughly.
When my father told me that story, I laughed and got a slap across the cheek for it. He truly believed there were flying saucers. BUT IT WASN'T MY EXPERIENCE and so I couldn't relate. Maybe it was "true" and maybe it wasn't, but it was most certainly his reality.
So it is with my meeting of Jesus. And I continue to experience Him in the most unlikely times and places. If I describe some of them you would reach a conclusion that I am hallucinating. If it weren't my experience I probably would agree.
I can't "show" you Jesus in a fashion you would find acceptable. It is up to YOU to "seek" in order to find. A desire for spiritual awareness and an earnestness in seeking it is necessary. I assure you this, when it happens you will know and know down to the core of your being. It's "magical," the very thing atheists do not want to consider.
My son, a recovering alcoholic, attends AA meetings and had to be "dried" out. He told me he wanted to recover but he didn't want God in the picture. Of course, the drying out facility as well as AA uses the twelve steps which are based on a "higher power." He didn't think he could sit through those meetings until one of the instructors said, "Some of you think you can do this without a higher power to assist you. How well has that worked? We are trying to give you the tools to win over this disease. Give faith in a higher power a try. Fake it till you make it.
He did, and he is now 18 months sober and such a remarkably improved person. Transformation, not information was what happened.
The way to recognize someone who is a Jesus follower is not how well they know the Bible but how well they treat those with other ideas and beliefs. Jesus never made fun of those people and was as kind to them as to His own disciples (often to their chagrin).
Biblical accuracy was never a goal in God's mind. The Bible is not a book of information, it is a book about transformation.
There are so few who get spiritual experience and its role in our purpose, Warden, that is why you would be my pastor if I had one.
People aren't always truthful, even those we love, yet I'm certain you give weight to their words and measure them against your own scale of "reality." The Bible is not a message from the Divine whispered into someone's ear, it is a testimony of men about their understanding of the nature of God. Some of it hits a chord, and some of it is discordant. This illustrates the importance of not discarding intelligence or discernment (as jeff does) when approaching a book written by men who wanted to talk about God.
I won't deny that the Bible played a role in a knowledge about Jesus. But it played a ROLE, it was not the primary reason for my salvation. No one sat down and started reading a Bible to me while saying believe this or believe that.
Now that is the $64,000 question, and the thing that is hardest for non-believers to grasp. I could say "a small voice," and it was. I could say "it was a eureka moment in my mine," and it was. I could say "a light flashed before my eyes," and it did. But what was it? I don't know yet.
Let me give another far-out analogy for "fact" lovers. My father was in the AF from WWII through the mid-sixties. He flew on bombers for awhile as the radio communications operator. During the early fifties he took a flight from what I believe was Hunter AFB in Savannah, Georgia to Texas. On the flight someone reported an object flying on the six of their aircraft. The pilot began slowly banking and my Dad jumped up from his position to look out the window and see a saucer-shaped object, as big as their own plane, following them. He jumped on radio to tell the pilot and the pilot responded by banking more sharply to turn back toward the object. Dad jumped up to look out and he said he saw the object suddenly accelerate rapidly and swerve into a cloud bank.
The pilot reported what had been seen by several of the crew and was told to maintain radio silence. When they got to Texas the whole crew was confined overnight separate from one another, and each was questioned thoroughly.
When my father told me that story, I laughed and got a slap across the cheek for it. He truly believed there were flying saucers. BUT IT WASN'T MY EXPERIENCE and so I couldn't relate. Maybe it was "true" and maybe it wasn't, but it was most certainly his reality.
So it is with my meeting of Jesus. And I continue to experience Him in the most unlikely times and places. If I describe some of them you would reach a conclusion that I am hallucinating. If it weren't my experience I probably would agree.
I can't "show" you Jesus in a fashion you would find acceptable. It is up to YOU to "seek" in order to find. A desire for spiritual awareness and an earnestness in seeking it is necessary. I assure you this, when it happens you will know and know down to the core of your being. It's "magical," the very thing atheists do not want to consider.
My son, a recovering alcoholic, attends AA meetings and had to be "dried" out. He told me he wanted to recover but he didn't want God in the picture. Of course, the drying out facility as well as AA uses the twelve steps which are based on a "higher power." He didn't think he could sit through those meetings until one of the instructors said, "Some of you think you can do this without a higher power to assist you. How well has that worked? We are trying to give you the tools to win over this disease. Give faith in a higher power a try. Fake it till you make it.
He did, and he is now 18 months sober and such a remarkably improved person. Transformation, not information was what happened.
The way to recognize someone who is a Jesus follower is not how well they know the Bible but how well they treat those with other ideas and beliefs. Jesus never made fun of those people and was as kind to them as to His own disciples (often to their chagrin).
Biblical accuracy was never a goal in God's mind. The Bible is not a book of information, it is a book about transformation.
Great post, Warden.
By the way, happy to hear about your son. My daughter just hit 15 months (after she'd relapsed once). She does not identify as Christian, especially after dating the son of a fundamentalist preacher throughout high school, but the concept of an hp works for her.
I'm not sure he's lying. I think he believes what he says.
I'm sure that Raffs knows that. 'Lying for Jesus' is ...well not telling the truth in support of Christian apologetics. It's a bit puzzling but involves not only presenting false information (from quotemining to lies - like 'Lucy's spine enters the skull from the back') but refusing to listen when it's refuted. This happens with changing the subject, dropping it and then repeating it later on. A lot of this is because the Christian apologists often just cut and paste arguments from apologetics websites and sometimes haven't read or at least understood it.
I have a theory... ...that the way this works is that what the evidence is doesn't matter, so long at it wins the point, because Christianity is known to be True on Faith, not on evidence. It's why false evidence is Gospel True if it supports Christianity and Valid evidence is mere opinion when it doesn't.
Once you get this mindset, then what is Going On becomes clear and ceases to be a mystery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Atheist method of rebuttal and showing evidence is inadequate - You're wrong well because you're wrong, oh and you're stupid too!
Don't forget rude. Wrong, stupid and rude. I thank 'nothing with potential' that you haven't heard the Really bad stuff we get up to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbfFAYn8bgc
I luv you Jeff; you are worth two divisions to us.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-05-2019 at 12:51 PM..
How the hell did you get THAT out of what I said????
jeff filters life through his persecution complex. He lugs it around with him wherever he goes. Like he did as a toddler with his favourite blankie. It comforts him to think he's a constantly-besieged spear carrier for Jesus.
I nearly feel sorry for him but he's so annoying the feeling quickly passes.
jeff filters life through his persecution complex. He lugs it around with him wherever he goes. Like he did as a toddler with his favourite blankie. It comforts him to think he's a constantly-besieged spear carrier for Jesus.
I nearly feel sorry for him but he's so annoying the feeling quickly passes.
And yet you won't hit the ignore button. What does that say about you? No one forces you to read my posts.
How the hell did you get THAT out of what I said????
jeff twists anything that is not a pat on the back into an insult. If he is observed as anything other than how he sees himself it isn't an opportunity for him to grow, but rather whine about the observer. He blacklisted me long ago because of the challenges I presented to him with my observations about his incessant condemnation of homosexuality. Nothing ever convinces him to look at himself, whereas atheists ALWAYS challenge me to look at myself.
My son admits he will never, ever not be an alcoholic, but he is committed to being a recovering alcoholic.
As for your daughter-- I know how that makes you feel.
And yet you won't hit the ignore button. What does that say about you? No one forces you to read my posts.
There are a number of members that have told me that they do not use the Ignore function. They simply choose to refrain from replying to certain members. A few have said that using the Ignore feature might cause some conversations to become hard to follow with missing posts.
IMO, you get a fair shake. Just like any other poster, you are allowed to share your opinion and other posters are free to agree, disagree, etc. You seem to believe that if someone does not believe the same things that you do, that you are being attacked and the mods have a duty to make sure that your religious beliefs be treated as above reproach.
First of all, unless you are familiar with my storied history here, you have no right to lay down such judgements. Do you even realize the level of DIRECT personal attacks I got from posters here? I've been called a child molester and other lies just made up like that I am a closet homosexual. That's what atheists do. Nothing is too low for them to post as long as it makes the Christian look bad. Disgusting lies that I would never do to someone else here. It's not a fair shake when this is a forum that is 90% anti-evangelical including the moderators. Just rename the board Bible burning lovers and be done with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by remsleep
What do you hope to win in this war you claim to be fighting? And who do you consider the enemy? It seems like you have some serious issues when you are forced to confront the fact that not everyone is going to accept your chosen religion and accept your desire that they live their lives according to your dogma. You continually insult and attack people that merely refuse to adopt your beliefs. IMO, you mock yourself with your lies, half truths and inability to treat atheists and followers of other religions with even a modicum of respect.
Show me one post where I called someone out personally and directed and insulted their character. For one thing, it is INCREDIBLY arrogant to judge a person's entire character based only one some internet posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by remsleep
Have you ever taken a step back and realized how poorly you are representing your religion? You sound incredibly angry, seem to hate everyone that is not a fundamentalist Christian and make me glad that I do not spend time around people like you. I can't imagine going through life like you do, do you really think your God wants you to treat other people this way?
Completely wrong on so many accounts. I already know the posters here have hardened their hearts. It will only take a supernatural experience with God to change them. What does make me angry is when people run others down and then try to justify it. It is because of my strong desire to love and encourage others that makes me really bristle when I encounter rude arrogant bully types. If you think that makes me a deplorable human being then you really do live in wacko atheist land where bad is good and good is bad. You are right in that my temperature has become a bit too much in these threads so I should take a break from here. Course God's Word promised we would be treated this way.
"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me."
There are a number of members that have told me that they do not use the Ignore function. They simply choose to refrain from replying to certain members. A few have said that using the Ignore feature might cause some conversations to become hard to follow with missing posts.
When I am constantly accused of ignoring posters, I find it necessary to let them know when I have officially ended all discussion with them for good.
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...that the way this works is that what the evidence is doesn't matter, so long at it wins the point, because Christianity is known to be True on Faith, not on evidence. It's why false evidence is Gospel True if it supports Christianity and Valid evidence is mere opinion when it doesn't. 
Wrong, stupid and rude. I thank 'nothing with potential' that you haven't heard the Really bad stuff we get up to.