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Old 03-31-2019, 10:29 AM
 
37,656 posts, read 10,220,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
I don't think it needs to be one reason. The Berlin Wall was torn down in 1989, and the communist empire of the USSR shortly thereafter. Atheism no longer carried the political stigma of being the equivalent of communist traitor, so it was ok to start to identify in that way.

My personal history might have a large impact on my view of this time though. I did the theist>agnostic>atheist journey in the mid to late 80s, so I started to notice all of the reasons supporting my opinions, and they seemed to become more and more obvious.
True, I am making an obvious causal connection -Internet/Irreligion. There could be other factors. End of communism, people felt safer (?) and safer people can be more casual about religion. 9/11 and what that led to, people became disillusioned with religion in general? Those events didn't influence me as an atheist, but they may have influenced Theists. What influenced me greatly was suddenly finding an online atheist voice. I had never had one, but for a few friends and the occasional doorstep evangelist. And the amount of information on the case for and against religion. The information that came out of religious debate. That made 'such a difference to my life'. Perhaps I over -estimate the effect of the Internet on the 'Nones'.
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Old 03-31-2019, 11:11 AM
 
5,820 posts, read 1,605,874 times
Reputation: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
What do you mean by "truth is relative" as opposed to being universal?

First of all, please define what you mean by truth. It certainly isn't something that only the religious have ownership of, if that is what you are implying.
What I mean by "truth is relative" is that for most folks today, truth has nothing to do with facts. It's that way in the media, in pop culture, and now even in our churches. People would rather go to a church that tells them there are many different truths that are all equally correct. They don't want to be told that they should adhere to rules, but they want a church to adhere to them.
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Old 03-31-2019, 12:04 PM
 
8,344 posts, read 4,902,161 times
Reputation: 9396
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Here is a vid by Non-Stamp Collector that is hilarious and blows up the "no contradictions in the bible" in a mere 10 minutes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk
Love it! Thanks for sharing.
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Old 03-31-2019, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,558 posts, read 8,121,963 times
Reputation: 14844
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
What I mean by "truth is relative" is that for most folks today, truth has nothing to do with facts. It's that way in the media, in pop culture, and now even in our churches. People would rather go to a church that tells them there are many different truths that are all equally correct. They don't want to be told that they should adhere to rules, but they want a church to adhere to them.
So, truth is not truth? Why do you use the word then? Why not just say belief instead?
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Old 03-31-2019, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,154 posts, read 8,929,395 times
Reputation: 6058
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
Just look at the trend line of "nones" (many,but not all, who are atheists) since 2010. It is a straight up shot, and coming from all areas, but especially the evangelicals are losing members.

Does this mean sanity is now valued?

Perhaps. Although there is no question that there are many atheists and agnostics in the "none" group, there are also still some who have a believe in some god or gods. However, it also seems clear that it is the first step towards rational thinking once people remove themselves from an organized religion. I've been an atheist for decades, but it took me a long time to even self-identify myself as such. I suspect I am not an anomaly.

At any rate, I see this as the real "good news".
Note that from about the early 1990s to 2004, mainline denominations (liberal denominations, e.g., Episcopalians) gain at the expense of the "nones", then this trend reverses from 2004 to present.

While there has been a moderate decline in Catholics and Evangelicals during the same time frame, the "nones" appear to be poaching "mainline denominations" for the most part. And this is not surprising, because those would be the sorts of believers most likely to hold their dogmas loosely and to be open to other points of view, including possibly becoming outright non-theist.

Also, "nones" have not quite reached their all-time high from 1990. Also, one must always keep in mind that the religiously unaffiliated includes, but does not consist exclusively of, unbelievers.

So this is not precisely some new thing under the sun, although the overall trend is modestly encouraging to me as an unbeliever.

I suspect we'll see a drop in evangelicals and Catholics in the coming decade as precipitous as and brutal as the past 15 years have been to mainline denominations. Evangelicals and Catholics have had their utter moral bankruptcy exposed, the former most clearly through their naked political power grabs and what they have rationalized to make those grabs; the Catholics largely through the ongoing pedophilia scandals.

I am not sure what the decline is in the mainline denominations, as I don't see a corresponding moral vacuum in that quarter. Some say they are dying by attrition, but the fact their congregants are trending older doesn't necessarily mean they are doomed, so long as they're gaining 50 and 60 year olds at the same rate the 70 and 80+ year olds are dying off. Whatever the cause it seems to have had a bit of a bounce in recent years; it remains to be seen if that's a dead cat bounce or not.
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Old 03-31-2019, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,342 posts, read 4,757,700 times
Reputation: 1428
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
How in the hell is Catholicism going back up merely because they accepted evolution? Or is it immigration?
99 percent of those immigrants are Catholic, maybe they aint in the poll, either way, I don't buy it, religion maybe failing with these kids in the new generation but I bet the vast majority believe in God.
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Old 03-31-2019, 02:33 PM
 
8,330 posts, read 3,708,587 times
Reputation: 1875
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
Just look at the trend line of "nones" (many,but not all, who are atheists) since 2010. It is a straight up shot, and coming from all areas, but especially the evangelicals are losing members.

Does this mean sanity is now valued?

Perhaps. Although there is no question that there are many atheists and agnostics in the "none" group, there are also still some who have a believe in some god or gods. However, it also seems clear that it is the first step towards rational thinking once people remove themselves from an organized religion. I've been an atheist for decades, but it took me a long time to even self-identify myself as such. I suspect I am not an anomaly.

At any rate, I see this as the real "good news".
No source link for this study? Of course, silly me, we are suppose to accept any study that is negative against Christianity at face value without question, right? How odd that the church parking lots still look full to me.


I wouldn't be surprised if they only took a survey of young people living in the Northeast.
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Old 03-31-2019, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,558 posts, read 8,121,963 times
Reputation: 14844
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Note that from about the early 1990s to 2004, mainline denominations (liberal denominations, e.g., Episcopalians) gain at the expense of the "nones", then this trend reverses from 2004 to present.

While there has been a moderate decline in Catholics and Evangelicals during the same time frame, the "nones" appear to be poaching "mainline denominations" for the most part. And this is not surprising, because those would be the sorts of believers most likely to hold their dogmas loosely and to be open to other points of view, including possibly becoming outright non-theist.

Also, "nones" have not quite reached their all-time high from 1990. Also, one must always keep in mind that the religiously unaffiliated includes, but does not consist exclusively of, unbelievers.

So this is not precisely some new thing under the sun, although the overall trend is modestly encouraging to me as an unbeliever.

I suspect we'll see a drop in evangelicals and Catholics in the coming decade as precipitous as and brutal as the past 15 years have been to mainline denominations. Evangelicals and Catholics have had their utter moral bankruptcy exposed, the former most clearly through their naked political power grabs and what they have rationalized to make those grabs; the Catholics largely through the ongoing pedophilia scandals.

I am not sure what the decline is in the mainline denominations, as I don't see a corresponding moral vacuum in that quarter. Some say they are dying by attrition, but the fact their congregants are trending older doesn't necessarily mean they are doomed, so long as they're gaining 50 and 60 year olds at the same rate the 70 and 80+ year olds are dying off. Whatever the cause it seems to have had a bit of a bounce in recent years; it remains to be seen if that's a dead cat bounce or not.
We may also see wobbly data because oh our demographics. Boomers and Milleniaks both outnumber Gen X by a considersable anount. The older demographic will start to shrink as boomers die, and there are not enough Xers to replace them.
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Old 03-31-2019, 03:00 PM
 
37,656 posts, read 10,220,673 times
Reputation: 4989
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
No source link for this study? Of course, silly me, we are suppose to accept any study that is negative against Christianity at face value without question, right? How odd that the church parking lots still look full to me.


I wouldn't be surprised if they only took a survey of young people living in the Northeast.
I couldn't find it, though the font looks like these people

PRRI (Public Religion Research Institute) is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization dedicated to conducting independent research at the intersection of religion, culture, and public policy.

However, if you want to dismiss these figures (which only continue the trend showed by the PEW research) feel free. Complacency by the believers about the rise of irreligion suits us down to the ground.
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Old 03-31-2019, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Dallas,Texas
1,375 posts, read 1,447,303 times
Reputation: 1477
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
No source link for this study? Of course, silly me, we are suppose to accept any study that is negative against Christianity at face value without question, right? How odd that the church parking lots still look full to me.


I wouldn't be surprised if they only took a survey of young people living in the Northeast.
Yes Jeff, they only surveyed those people in the Northeast US. LOL You are good for facepalms Jeff, you truly are.
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