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Because with a DM he can claim he has won, on an open forum people can see that he has not.
Exactly. I would reject an offer to debate in DM unless I felt there was a genuine need to honestly discuss in private.
I want discussion to be where everyone can see it, and disgrace and defeat is public. We are in a campaign and wars are not won by individual duels, and not even by shooting the enemy, but by making their ground untenable and obliging them to pull back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
How can you say that you are winning when you have to admit that most of the nones are not atheist? Whenever there is a tragedy, you don't hear the nones majority say, well we won't pray for you because we don't believe in that nonsense. You hear all the leaders of our country and the majority offer to pray for our country.
Winning? We are clearly winning the polemic arguments here, and we are winning it elsewhere. Whether the increase - huge - in irreligion is a 'win' for atheism is hardly worth asking. 'No religion' rather than this or that religion is a no -win for religion, and so has to be a win for us. We know that atheist is still a dirty word in the US. But just those who dump religion may, I hope, be at least open -minded enough to actually understand and consider atheism and maybe not be so open to kneejerk demonisation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
You're the one that mentioned Jefferson as a showpiece of Christianity. Remember this?
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
People like Thomas Jefferson and other freethinking U.S. founding fathers would have disagreed with you. They understood that there were so many more important things in life than trying to change the beliefs of other people the way you do. They knew that it was a fruitless and foolish endeavor.
Oh, very good. I missed that. It's a result of ad hoc apologetics. Just like ol' Eusebius with his Black sea apologetic (1). Introduce an apologetic, and then when it turns around and bites them in the ass, decry the other side for 'bringing it up'. All boils down to double -standard thinking where evidence is only good if it supports the faith. And we have seen a few examples of that.
(1) recounted in "Wisdom of the baby -eaters" Atheist -Dogma university press, No 666, Fornication street, Satanic square, Darwinopolis.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-14-2019 at 10:41 AM..
Sorry, I forgot the Religion forum was the unofficial Atheist-B forum.
Always remember that, young man. But also don't pretend that the religious are forbidden from posting here. They can, but they will (and they seem to know this) find that they cannot get away with murder like they can on a believer -dominated forum where the only ructions they are going to get are from believers in rival dogma.
It is, Ozzy, a dirty trick to claim that we are somehow excluding religious posters from posting here. It isn't the first time you've made the claim and have been corrected on it, so, as usual, you are doing your credibility no favours.
But you may be doing me one. In a way, R/s (Religion and secularism) is a cardboard theatre acting out of a secularist society. Anything religious may be discussed here - in fact I recall someone posting a video proving that the Quran was satanic, and I showed that the argument suffered from bias. If on the other hand, a Muslim argued that God could not have a son, and that Jesus could not have died on the cross and been made alive again, I could ague that God could certainly do both of those if he wanted to.
In short, religious discussion is not banned but any claim will be called on - fairly and impartially.
So most realise that they are better staying indoors and not exposing their faith to question and possible doubt.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-14-2019 at 11:02 AM..
Exactly. I would reject an offer to debate in DM unless I felt there was a genuine need to honestly discuss in private.
I want discussion to be where everyone can see it, and disgrace and defeat is public. We are in a campaign and wars are not won by individual duels, and not even by shooting the enemy, but by making their ground untenable and obliging them to pull back.
Winning? We are clearly winning the polemic arguments here, and we are winning it elsewhere. Whether the increase - huge - in irreligion is a 'win' for atheism is hardly worth asking. 'No religion' rather than this or that religion is a no -win for religion, and so has to be a win for us. We know that atheist is still a dirty word in the US. But just those who dump religion may, I hope, be at least open -minded enough to actually understand and consider atheism and maybe not be so open to kneejerk demonisation.
Oh, very good. I missed that. It's a result of ad hoc apologetics. Just like ol' Eusebius with his Black sea apologetic (1). Introduce an apologetic, and then when it turns around and bites them in the ass, decry the other side for 'bringing it up'. All boils down to double -standard thinking where evidence is only good if it supports the faith. And we have seen a few examples of that.
(1) recounted in "Wisdom of the baby -eaters" Atheist -Dogma university press, No 666, Fornication street, Satanic square, Darwinopolis.
I'm disgusted by so-called Christians who rewrite history the way they wish it had occurred. It is actually quite un-Christian and practiced regularly by a couple of people on this thread.
It makes atheists and agnostics unwilling to discuss ANYTHING spiritual because what it emphasizes is their redaction of history. And it is a reasonable assumption by any thinking person.
No two ways about it, the churches of America are graying, and I think the rise of young earth creationists, flat-earthers, and infallible, inerrant bible worshippers has done that to us. First and second century Christians saw much more allegory in the OT in particular.
Not that this will prevent these "wise" theists from continuing to shoot themselves and their faith in the proverbial foot. I just don't want Jesus followers (as opposed to bible worshippers) lumped in with them. Cannot even atheists see wisdom coming from Jesus out of the Jefferson Bible sans miracles?
Exactly. I would reject an offer to debate in DM unless I felt there was a genuine need to honestly discuss in private.
I have seen this DM debate tactic from someone* who claims he has defeated X number of atheists in private debates, but from what he posts on forums, this is clearly not true. I would never debate privately because I do not trust such people (and because I post for other people to read).
* The man was so stupid he started to insult and rant at atheists (saying we are mentally ill) shortly after outing himself on the internet.
Another thread on this forum the OP requests assistance for finding a religion to fit him. You responded a couple of times. Rafius asked what about atheism. Others brought up other religions. Where is thecanti religion or anti Christian sdpets of that thread. On many theads Christians aRe ateacher bY not atheists but by more conservative Christians. You have posted in the atheist forum and myself in the Christian one.
The one thing we should accept is that if one attacks other groyps,those other groups will respond. That is a fact of life. When folks lIke yourself make inaccurate or down right wring accusations or state men's aboutique atheists be oreared to need to defend those statements.
An hones posterling is oNE whour wI'll cor rectangular thems elves when their accusations aRe shwon to be un founded or wrong. FOr example the more a postereo tells me that i hate Christians bas ed solely that i do not belie be in aNY Gods the lessential likEly i am to accept that pisterling of wan ting to have an hones discussion ..
Taking the 'insults' out of context won't do any good. One could quote Matt Dillahunty telling some Christian that he was a piece of crap and play the persecuted martyr card, if the bit about a small girl deserving to be raped because she was born a sinner is left out.
From what I've seen, Jeff, you only got slammed when when you had earned the abuse -like posting evidence that refuted your position, denying it when you got called and getting slammed when you attacked those who refuted your position.
So playing the martyr with quotemined 'insults' won't get you anywhere.
What would is if you started paying attention to what the facts actually are and using sound reasoning.
But where that would get you is probably not where you want to go.
Oh so now you are going with I deserved it? Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. It is sad that ANY ABUSE is occurring. Why can't your side just respectfully disagree? No, you have to throw a hissy fit. I have yet to meet a single true friendly atheist. NEVER ONCE! I will continue to work to expose the ugliness and lies that come from camp including claiming that I am never personally attacked. That one really takes the cake.
Jeff didn't respond to a question. Jeff is perfectly able to refute this, if it is not true. He hasn't.
Perhaps the reason no one else will take Jeff up on his "offer" is because it was vacuous. Which doesn't come as a great shock to many.
Fish is the only one who had the courage to respond. That just shows your side only cares about ego stroking and Christian bashing. You can't handle a fair equal debate.
I'm disgusted by so-called Christians who rewrite history the way they wish it had occurred. It is actually quite un-Christian and practiced regularly by a couple of people on this thread.
It makes atheists and agnostics unwilling to discuss ANYTHING spiritual because what it emphasizes is their redaction of history. And it is a reasonable assumption by any thinking person.
No two ways about it, the churches of America are graying, and I think the rise of young earth creationists, flat-earthers, and infallible, inerrant bible worshippers has done that to us. First and second century Christians saw much more allegory in the OT in particular.
Not that this will prevent these "wise" theists from continuing to shoot themselves and their faith in the proverbial foot. I just don't want Jesus followers (as opposed to bible worshippers) lumped in with them. Cannot even atheists see wisdom coming from Jesus out of the Jefferson Bible sans miracles?
Thank you and for your trick of blacking up the salient passage in a quote to highlight it. That'll help me to pick out passages in posts i particularly want to respond to without having to electro-dismember a post.
I am happy to grasp the hand proffered across the gray area of Christianity that wants to be pulled free of the morass or the OT and Bible -literalism
Yes, the argument that the NT at least contains some good advice and guidance for living. Jefferson simply took this idea and applied it, taking out the stuff that wasn't 'needed' and leaving the 'good ideas'; the Jesus that is the example to follow. Never mind the religion with its OT stuff which Jesus came to fulfill (read, 'Make Obsolete') anyway. Fermenting Christmas, didn't Jesus himself preach against the Sabbath and doing no harm was actually a better activity?
I will not try to bamboozle you and it wouldn't fool you anyway. Going to the NT and finding stuff that looks good to you (and sidelining the 'hate your brother and blast Chorazin' stuff) is (in my view) applying human morality to the Bible. I say 'use the human morality then'. But if you find the whole ethos of Christianity and the idea of Jesus is good for you, if you do it that way, and you broadly endorse separation of Church and state (there are some Dogmas and tenets that you are required to swear to before the "A" brand can be seared onto your arse) then we can do business with you, even if you put down 'Christian' rather than "None".
Oh so now you are going with I deserved it? Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. It is sad that ANY ABUSE is occurring. Why can't your side just respectfully disagree? No, you have to throw a hissy fit. I have yet to meet a single true friendly atheist. NEVER ONCE! I will continue to work to expose the ugliness and lies that come from camp including claiming that I am never personally attacked. That one really takes the cake.
You've been posting your pathetic pity party for five years. Whining the same whines. Mewling the same mewls.
What a sad, boring life. Yet you insist on inflicting it on others.
Oh so now you are going with I deserved it? Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. It is sad that ANY ABUSE is occurring. Why can't your side just respectfully disagree? No, you have to throw a hissy fit. I have yet to meet a single true friendly atheist. NEVER ONCE! I will continue to work to expose the ugliness and lies that come from camp including claiming that I am never personally attacked. That one really takes the cake.
The reactions from every single Atheist rests in your hands, their reactions begin with a thought in your head, you post that thought, and they react. Atheists are not living with the same standards and limits that limit a Christian, if you say something unloving and you get an unloving answer, that is on you Jeff, you are to be an example of love and forgiveness above what normal people are. If you get slapped, dont slap back, somebody curses you, bless them, and if you can't agreement with everything, smile and be on your way and agree to disagree.
I am not always as kind with Christians because they are Christians, but with Atheists, there is no reason to be as enemies. If somebody is offended by something you said, it's because you said something in an offensive way. I never hardly ever have any problem with Atheists. I can understand why they come, and why they should really have a say.
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Oh, very good. I missed that. It's a result of ad hoc apologetics. Just like ol' Eusebius with his Black sea apologetic (1). Introduce an apologetic, and then when it turns around and bites them in the ass, decry the other side for 'bringing it up'. All boils down to double -standard thinking where evidence is only good if it supports the faith. And we have seen a few examples of that. 
