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Old 04-17-2019, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,981 posts, read 7,467,310 times
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Then, Hanni, the Messiah the Jews were expecting was worthless to the rest of the world, and ultimately to the Jews as he would have continued a primitive and even vicious religious system, one that thankfully is now dead or sotransformed astoamount to the same thing.
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Old 04-17-2019, 04:20 PM
 
39,085 posts, read 26,268,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I presented a video of the Rabbi discussing why Jews donít believe in Jesus and it got off track so quickly...Instead of discussing the contents of the video, it seems everyone went off on tangents...
Tangents are in the eye of the beholder. The point is that why the Jews do not believe in Jesus is not all that mysterious. They rejected Him in person after all. They had different expectations for what their Messiah would be and what they wanted him to do. But their expectations do not constrain or decide for God what kind of Messiah He would send.
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Old 04-17-2019, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,389 posts, read 4,771,373 times
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No Nate, the whole idea was for Gentiles to be grafted and adopted into Israel to stand as co heirs with God's chosen people, and so a Jew came and he offered a symbolic betrothal that would redeem Gentiles converts to Judaism into Israel through a promised betrothal to the lost Gentiles of the Northern Kingdom known as the ten lost tribes.

Messiah did not come offering a betrothal to Jews to become Jews, Messiah did not come to try and redeem Jews into Israel, they are already Israel, they are the chosen people Nate, the plan is to add to the nation, a plan of HOPE for Gentiles.

GRAFTED

ADOPTED

God told us that he would take those ten tribes to seed them into the Gentile nations and that one day those seeds would bring a harvest from the Gentile nations where the ten tribes went.

God ended the kingdom of Israel because of their paganism , and because they willingly became Gentiles,'' NOT MY PEOPLE.''


After God ended Israel, he then turns around and gives the Gentile nations so much hope, and where God had said to them,'' YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE AND I WILL NOT BE YOUR GOD,'' IN THE SAME PLACE IT WILL BE SAID TO THEM,'' THESE ARE THE SONS OF THE LIVING GOD.''


This promise is only made to those lost ten tribes, the betrothal was promised to those Gentiles of those lost ten tribes, NOT TO JUDAH.

Messiah NEVER had a plan to marry a Jew so a Jew could be a Jew.
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Old 04-17-2019, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,389 posts, read 4,771,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Tangents are in the eye of the beholder. The point is that why the Jews do not believe in Jesus is not all that mysterious. They rejected Him in person after all. They had different expectations for what their Messiah would be and what they wanted him to do. But their expectations do not constrain or decide for God what kind of Messiah He would send.
Christianity makes it completely impossible for Jews to believe in a lawless, Gentile, pagan Messiah who has come to lead his followers into 2000 years of persecution, death and genocide against Jews.

Presenting a crazed lawless, pagan Messiah whose followers are the worst enemies of Jews, I mean, that just doesn't sound persuasive.

The Messiah is a savior to Israel, lol.

I don't understand where most Christians aren't getting this. It is like they are scratching their heads in wonderment of how Jews don't believe in Jesus. How can Christians really be serious in their witness to Jews when they hand the Jews proof of their 2000 year history showing what the chuch did to Jews.

If I was a Jew, it would make rational sense to ban the New Testament altogether, and it isn't like we don't have proof showing what the followers of Jesus have done to Jews of Judah.

How can we Christians look at a Jew with a straight face to say,'' Jesus was the Messiah the prophets spoke of, the great hero of Israel, of Jews, and of Judaism, ''Here is your Messiah.''

Really?
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Old 04-17-2019, 09:34 PM
 
39,085 posts, read 26,268,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Christianity makes it completely impossible for Jews to believe in a lawless, Gentile, pagan Messiah who has come to lead his followers into 2000 years of persecution, death and genocide against Jews.

Presenting a crazed lawless, pagan Messiah whose followers are the worst enemies of Jews, I mean, that just doesn't sound persuasive.

The Messiah is a savior to Israel, lol.

I don't understand where most Christians aren't getting this. It is like they are scratching their heads in wonderment of how Jews don't believe in Jesus. How can Christians really be serious in their witness to Jews when they hand the Jews proof of their 2000 year history showing what the chuch did to Jews.

If I was a Jew, it would make rational sense to ban the New Testament altogether, and it isn't like we don't have proof showing what the followers of Jesus have done to Jews of Judah.

How can we Christians look at a Jew with a straight face to say,'' Jesus was the Messiah the prophets spoke of, the great hero of Israel, of Jews, and of Judaism, ''Here is your Messiah.''

Really?
Why confuse what people claiming to believe and follow Jesus DO with what God intended? Pick any group or designation of people and we can find adherents who do and have done horrific things. What does that have to do with what God intended to do with His Messiah or Messenger?
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Old 04-17-2019, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,389 posts, read 4,771,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Why confuse what people claiming to believe and follow Jesus DO with what God intended? Pick any group or designation of people and we can find adherents who do and have done horrific things. What does that have to do with what God intended to do with His Messiah or Messenger?
What God has appointed for his messengers of his covenant are great mysteries to Christians made blind in such a way that no amount of speaking will have any effect. I think it is a spirit, I mean, that is my opinion of people who deny facts, who deny what the written word actually teaches of Messiah.

Or maybe it is just ignorance from the sheer amount of information a person would take in IF he was born to be a Levite.

The biggest confusion of Jesus amongst Christians is that they literally do not know what he came to do, they literally cannot grasp things that they do not study, the religion of Messiah is like a sickness to Christians as if learning the 7 appointed visitation days of Christ is some disease to avoid.

Jesus came as a prophet just like Moses, Jesus came as a messenger of the covenant as the prophets foretold, and what did Moses do?

He stood as a mediator betwix the two.

When the messenger of the covenant came, he came as a messenger standing betwix the two, JUST AS MOSES.

But where O where was the lost sheep of the house of Israel who became Gentiles and who were offered a betrothal to a Jew?

Jesus came bringing a covenant to ONLY, ONLY, ONLY EPHRAIM AND JUDAH.

Jesus came as the messenger to unite two people as one after the loss of the ten tribes were seeded into the Gentile Nations.

This is why Jesus was so concerned about the lost sheep of the house of Israel, ALL OF THEM WOMEN.

Every Jew should have been offering a betrothal to Gentiles who converted to the ways of God, but he found the bridegroom alone, and then by HIS OWN ARM, HE STOOD AS A BRIDEGROOM, AS A JEW HIMSELF, JUST AS THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE HIM AS BRIDEGROOMS.

Those ten lost tribes who willingly became Gentiles, they were promised a way BACK INTO ISRAEL.

Hosea 2 PROMISES A BETROTHAL.

This betrothal is ONLY offered to Gentiles who would willingly convert to God's religion under a BETROTHAL PROMISE TO REDEEM THAT GENTILE INTO ISRAEL IF THEY WILLINGLY BECOME A SUBMISSIVE BRIDE TO JEWS OF JUDAH.

Jesus came 700 years after the ten tribes were seeded into all the Gentile nations, and what Jesus should have found was that EVERY SINGLE JEW WENT OUT TAKING BRIDES.

But where O where were all the brides promised a betrothal to a Jew in Hosea 2?

He found no brides and so he went out looking to find the lost sheep of the house of Israel to offer a Betrothal as ANY Jew could have offered.

The entire plan was to add ALL NATIONS INTO THE CHOSEN.

This is done by Gentiles accepting a betrothal to a Jew, and they must be willing to become a submissive virgin to the will of her betrothed,'' A Jew.''


Jesus came as the messenger of the covenant to unite the men of Judah with the women of Ephraim, and it is that simple.

Where is my husband, I search the streets of Jerusalem begging for anyone who would have me.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:59 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,389 posts, read 4,771,373 times
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It's Pesach, Passover, and it will be a Passover like no other.

Repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
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Old 04-18-2019, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,976 posts, read 10,138,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
Still Jesus spirit has profoundly visited many Jews and Muslims and other people , were this personal visit has lead them to conversion .......
...and many Christians have converted to other religions or even atheism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Many Jews DO believe in Jesus. Weird how that works.
I don't think so. It's my understanding that Jews do not believe that their Messiah has come so they don't believe in Jesus. If one believes that Jesus is the Messiah then you can't be a Jew. Richard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
That Jews should stop complaining and crying over anti Semitism and 2000 years of persecution and if we do kill some Jews, they have no right to complain?
I agree with that. You can hardly complain about persecution whilst driving Palestinians out of their homes and stealing their lands.

Oooop! Little bit of politics there.
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Old 04-18-2019, 09:43 AM
 
Location: US
27,393 posts, read 14,723,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
...and many Christians have converted to other religions or even atheism.

I don't think so. It's my understanding that Jews do not believe that their Messiah has come so they don't believe in Jesus. If one believes that Jesus is the Messiah then you can't be a Jew. Richard?

I agree with that. You can hardly complain about persecution whilst driving Palestinians out of their homes and stealing their lands.

Oooop! Little bit of politics there.
Once youíre a Jew, youíre a jew for life...Even if you convert to another religion, though youíll be held accountable...
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Old 04-18-2019, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,389 posts, read 4,771,373 times
Reputation: 1432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
...and many Christians have converted to other religions or even atheism.

I don't think so. It's my understanding that Jews do not believe that their Messiah has come so they don't believe in Jesus. If one believes that Jesus is the Messiah then you can't be a Jew. Richard?

I agree with that. You can hardly complain about persecution whilst driving Palestinians out of their homes and stealing their lands.

Oooop! Little bit of politics there.
I would argue that ur opinion is ridiculous lol, but I cannot speak to cheap shots about politics or we would be doing nothing except for talking pllitics. Everyone wants to have their political jabs but should I respond, I would be knowingly breaking the rules.
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