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Old 04-10-2019, 08:31 AM
 
5,599 posts, read 2,185,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
The post is easy enough to find and you are not being honest if you are accusing me of being prejudiced against entire groups of people. That's not my bag or anything I need to do. Perhaps you're just projecting because you're certainly not being honest.
I do not think 8 have ever attacked an entire group. My posts are directed at comments made by a poster as a refuting of what they have said.

If you believe that any of my posts are insulting or mocking a group I challenge you to address this on each and every future posts I make calling me out on this. In return I will do the same for you.
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,173 posts, read 13,915,031 times
Reputation: 15349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
They had better get used to it. I reckon 10 years max and Islam will have overtaken them.
Do you understand why?

If you did a comparative study of Islam and christianity, you'd be able to characterize each religion.

How would you characterize Islam?

Liberation theology.

You could never characterize christianity in that way, because it's contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

Jesus says you must obey all authority, regardless, because Jesus appointed all authority.

What does Islam say?

Islam says you have a duty to obey a just authority, but never a duty to obey an unjust authority.

That's very different than christianity.

Another thing, christianity says that if you are suffering, that's just too bad, suck it up and move on, but not to worry, you get to walk with Jesus in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Islam says if you're suffering, then make changes so you don't suffer, so long as you act morally and righteously.

That's why christians in Africa are converting to Islam, because they're suffering, often under unjust authorities, and Islam says they don't have to suffer, while christianity says they do.

Go back to Britain in the Middle Ages. There you are, toiling in a field owned by the 11th Earl of Mar, because, you know, that land has been in his family for 11 generations. The local Catholic bishop comes round, and you ask, "Is this all I am? Is there nothing more? I'm to suffer and toil just because the lord of the manor thinks he's special?"

The Catholic bishop would say, "Yeah, it's god's plan. Shut up and plow the fields."

If Islam had been introduced to Britain at that time, you'd have the Islamic Republic of Britain, and not the United Kingdom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
They do, do they? Mmmm .... Well, I look forward to the removal of the claim that their god created all things - which is found in Genesis which you say has been removed?

On the Genesis creation thing, you mentioned earlier that Yahweh is the creator god - no he isn't. Nowhere in the bible does it name Yahweh as the creator god but it does mention more than one god being involved in the creation. Just saying.
The Hebrews didn't create Genesis. Their cosmogony was part of older cultures. In that cosmogony, it was Ninmah, Enki and Ningishiddza who created humans, and it's a fairly detailed and descriptive story.

As the Hebrews shift from polytheism to henotheism it's kind of debasing to their chief god Yahweh, so they just rewrote the text as:

"Let us create man in our image and our likeness, so the elohim (gods) created man."

Then later, one of the priests writing the texts just inserted Yahweh in front of elohim in places.

Then much later, someone combined all the different Hebrew versions into one version.

A few centuries after that, Jeremiah writes Deuteronomy, and then makes massive edits in the Tetrateuch to suit his agenda.

Through archeology, we're likely to find the older texts. That'll be a sad day for christians, but not for the restivus.
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,173 posts, read 13,915,031 times
Reputation: 15349
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The patriarchs each had a personal relationship with the living God.
Except the Patriarchs are modeled and based upon the pre-Diluvial and ante-Diluvial kings in the King List.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Why not try to understand just ONE book in the Old Testament, and not worry about what else is included?
Well, to do that requires you to have moral courage, and you don't.

It takes moral courage to recognize and admit that the Patriarchs are just copies of kings from the King List.

It takes moral courage to recognize and admit that the Hebrews never wrote Genesis, they merely copied it from much older cultures, and left out a great amount of detail.

And, it takes moral courage to sit down and study those other much older texts and do a comparative analysis, especially to see how the kings from the King List figure into the original stories.

If you can't do that, then all you're doing is spewing highly subjective emotionally speculative nonsense.

You're like a Madonna-christian.

You fawn all over Madonna, "Wow, American Pie is such a great song. It's the bomb. Madonna is such a great writer."

Yeah, except Madonna never wrote American Pie, Don McLean did, and when Madonna recorded it, she left out half the freaking verses.

That's Genesis in a nutshell.

The Hebrews never wrote it, they just copied it, and they left out half the freaking details.

Take the Garden of Eden story.

In the original, Enki the serpent sea-god, who along with his sister Ninmah and his son Ningishiddza created humans, is the champion of humans. He wants to give humans knowledge, but his half-brother Enlil who hates humans, doesn't want humans to have knowledge.

Enki goes behind Enlil's back and gives humans knowledge anyway.

The Hebrews spin it a little different, but still have the serpent -- Enki -- giving humans knowledge.

So, how daft is it that christians rail against Satan the Devil, when it was Satan who created humans?

If you don't understand the original Garden of Eden story, you can't understand the Deluge story.

In the original, the gods, specifically Ningishiddza and Marduk, discover a celestial event will cause a cataclysm on Earth, and nothing can be done to stop it. Enlil orders the gods to keep quiet and not tell humans about it, because Enlil hates humans and sees this as a way to get rid of them.

Once again, Enki goes behind Enlil's back.

Enki doesn't "technically" break his oath. He leaves plans for a submersible vessel where Ziusurda (Noah) can find them, then tells Ziusurda where he can find the man to build the ship, and where he can find the man skilled enough to navigate and pilot and ship, without speaking directly to Ziusurda (he talks to a brick wall knowing that Ziusurda can hear him).

As the gods watch the Deluge unfold, they cry and weep. They are filled with remorse and regret for not helping humans.

Afterwards, as Enlil is strolling about, he smells meat cooking and realizes Enki duped him, but he's not mad. Enlil tells Ziusurda he regrets not helping humans and promises it will never happen again, and the rainbow is as sign of this promise.

The Hebrews left out a lot when they copied it.

The proof that the Hebrews didn't write the Genesis stories or other stories like Job, is painfully obvious.

If the Hebrews were the original authors of those stories, then those stories would be 100% in Hebrew, and not use foreign loan-words.

More to the point, they wouldn't be using foreign loan-words from two civilizations that had ceased to exist centuries earlier.

That would be like an American using a Dacian word like sarmizegetusa because you don't have English words to say "the circle of knowledge of heaven and earth" or more simply a "solar-lunar observatory."

If you want to get at the truth, you have to consult original source documents, not documents that have been altered for political and social reasons.
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:11 PM
 
10,049 posts, read 12,481,604 times
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Mircea, I think you've completely missed the point.
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Old 04-11-2019, 12:27 AM
 
3,869 posts, read 2,488,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
I do not think 8 have ever attacked an entire group. My posts are directed at comments made by a poster as a refuting of what they have said.

If you believe that any of my posts are insulting or mocking a group I challenge you to address this on each and every future posts I make calling me out on this. In return I will do the same for you.
I don't care what you post! In the past, I'd always respected you as a congenial type poster but now I honestly couldn't care less about anything you have to say.
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Old 04-11-2019, 10:44 AM
 
5,599 posts, read 2,185,962 times
Reputation: 2109
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
I don't care what you post! In the past, I'd always respected you as a congenial type poster but now I honestly couldn't care less about anything you have to say.
Whstever. As I still have no clue why you claimed I was being dishonest I N9 longer care.
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Old Yesterday, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Missouri
378 posts, read 144,325 times
Reputation: 58
I like your proposal oz.

By proposal, I expect you are not talking about a one man project. But a group “project.” We create together, little here, little there and brand new, more clear understanding that makes good sense of the Abrahamic God. Well, just to get something started to contrast Mircea's version of Abrahamic men? I couldn't see or comprehend any god in his version.

*The Abrahamic God*

The majority of these people would be from three different ideologies, with three different versions, all dependent on the first five books of the Torah, and or The Bible, and or fragments from clay tablets, etc.

As already pointed out, the obvious place to begin would have to be with Adam, and or Genesis; ”In the beginning…”

I think we should pay attention to the word first mentioned of anything in any story we read or create about the concept of this God of Abraham. As in, when did God tell Abel to kill a lamb and eat It? 500 years after the fact? That may be wrong. It is wrong.

And the word of first mentioned of, or site of, Satan, the “Origin of Satan,” is found in Genesis 3:1 AKJ version 1611: “Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.”

Explain the meaning of that one sentence in whatever tongue it is translated to. What is that telling you about the beginning of Satan?

#1. More subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made?

Where did God create any talking snake? This serpent did not exist when God finished creation: The Lord God looked back upon every thing that he had made, and Behold: Genesis 1-31, it was very good. No serpent in sight, and ‘Thus, the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them

Then suddenly, corruption was found:

“Now the serpent [That Lying Tongue] was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.”

This whispering hissing serpent was talking to herself: Eve saw that it was good, it pleased her eyes, she desired it, she made up her own mind…and where was this talking serpent that influenced Adam? A talking snake deceived Eve? The woman deceived Adam? Nobody deceived anybody, they just liked it?

-

“Even so, the tongue is a little member…behold how great a matter a little fire kindles! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members that defiles the whole body, and sits on fire the course of nature: and it is set on fire of hell…it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.” -James 3 And I think David called it a poisonous viper under their lips.

The source of Satan, that selfish spirit of man, straight from the heart flying off the tip of the tongue:

“Are ye without understanding? Do not ye yet understand? Whatsoever enters in at the mouth, goes to the belly, and is cast out. But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies,. These are the things that defile a man.”

I’m trying to present a “Concept” of the Abrahamic God from my own understanding from the words or works in the Book that influences my version of him.

And to me, this is a true conception from this story.

What do you people consider reasonable? You would have to start somewhere. How to work together? I wish I knew how to do that. And I rest all this + more upon the understanding of that one sentence from the beginning – Genesis 3:1; The Origin of Satan. The word of first mention.

What understanding do you have for Genesis 3:1? Or give us your version or concept of this God?

Try to expand the mind instead of boxing it in. The more options the better.

What could be put together?
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Old Yesterday, 06:33 PM
 
10,049 posts, read 12,481,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auralmack View Post
What understanding do you have for Genesis 3:1? Or give us your version or concept of this God?
Thank you.

I would say that the serpent represents something that would cause us to question God. Or to question something that we know we should trust from a loved one, such as a family member. We have a relationship with our loved ones and with God. And those are the ones we should trust. Two people who trust in God have a relationship of "3" when God is present.
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Old Yesterday, 07:12 PM
 
12,309 posts, read 4,693,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Thank you.

I would say that the serpent represents something that would cause us to question God. Or to question something that we know we should trust from a loved one, such as a family member. We have a relationship with our loved ones and with God. And those are the ones we should trust. Two people who trust in God have a relationship of "3" when God is present.
A wise man, a fisherman, once said, something like, the serpent is the most important character god ever created. or something like that.
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Old Today, 04:30 AM
 
Location: Missouri
378 posts, read 144,325 times
Reputation: 58
…an adversary of God.

Well, whatever it is, it was with Eve talking.

Subtle Serpent – likely to elude perception, or understanding, requiring mental acuteness, penetration, or discernment.
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