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Old 05-27-2019, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,191 posts, read 10,273,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omega2xx View Post
They just need to keep in mind that nothing in the Bible can be proven wrong also.
Already done.
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Old 05-27-2019, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,191 posts, read 10,273,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
Anyone can be fooled. Continuing to be fooled for two thousand years however obliterates simple foolishness. Being fooled for two thousand years represents "ridiculous, laughable, risible, derisible; dumb, dim, dimwitted, dopey, gormless, damfool, half-baked, harebrained, crackbrained, peabrained, wooden-headed, thickheaded," all rolled into one.

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled.
-Mark Twain
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Old 05-27-2019, 10:27 AM
 
11,132 posts, read 11,195,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omega2xx View Post
Of course they can and should. Especially in religious matters.. They just need to keep in mind that nothing in the Bible can be proven wrong also. Just keep an open mind.
We don't have to prove the Bible wrong. All we have do--and have already done innumerable times--is demonstrate that the New Testament was written 50-100 years after someone's crucifixion by Greek writers who never knew Jesus and never heard him speak.

Fact1: the gospels are anonymous. Source: Harris, Stephen L., Understanding the Bible. Palo Alto: Mayfield. 1985.

Fact2: the gospels were written by Greeks. Source: Kurt Aland, Barbara Aland The text of the New Testament: an introduction to the critical 1995 p52

Quote:
"The New Testament was written in Koine Greek, the Greek of daily conversation.
Fact3: the gospels were written 50-100 years after Jesus. Source: "An Introduction to the Gospels"

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...ry/mmfour.html

Quote:
The gospels were written over the course of almost a century after Jesus' death
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Old 05-27-2019, 01:30 PM
 
Location: USA
3,427 posts, read 1,246,365 times
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Originally posted by TRANSPONDER
There is a not a single article in existence that proves that Ganesh, Zeus or Santa Claus is not real (especially if if any that try to are dismissed as 'having no proof'). So what can be proved or disproved is not the point, but where the weight of evidence lies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by omega2xx View Post
That's the point---THERE IS NO EVIDENCE to support either position. We both accept what we believe by faith alone. the only difference is I admit it, you don't.
What exactly qualifies as "evidence," in your opinion? Ganesha is mentioned in the Ganesha Purana, the Mudgala Purana, the Ganapati Atharvashirsa, Brahma Purana and Brahmanda Purana texts. His parents were Parvati and Shiva. Valid "evidence" wouldn't be restricted only to those things which serve to sustain YOUR belief system... would it?

My "faith" in science is sustained every time I turn on my computer, or use my smartphone btw. They actually work. And I don't have to wait 2,000 years.

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Old 05-27-2019, 03:34 PM
 
38,753 posts, read 10,667,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omega2xx View Post
That's the point---THERE IS NO EVIDENCE to support either position. We both accept what we believe by faith alone. the only difference is I admit it, you don't.





You didn't disproved it because it can't be proved or disproved. Opinions do not disprove anything, and that is all you have.





It is silly to say if something is not reported in another gospel, it must be wrong. You certainly have no evidence John added some personal verses. The OPINIONS expressed by secular writers in no way refutes what is in the gospels.
Mate. Luke totally refutes what John says. Just as he refutes what Matthew says...twice. It isn't a question of 'something left out'. You are just making yourself and your religion look a dogs' dinner by sticking you fingers in your ears, screwing your eyes shut and chanting 'you have no evidence..'
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Old 05-27-2019, 03:43 PM
 
38,753 posts, read 10,667,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omega2xx View Post
Of course they can and should. Especially in religious matters.. They just need to keep in mind that nothing in the Bible can be proven wrong also. Just keep an open mind.
Our minds are fine, thanks, but yours is screwed up by Faith. if it wasn't, you'd see that, if there was no evidence on either side, the logical conclusion would be no to believe the claims until there was some evidence one way or the other.

I suspect that would then say 'Oh, well there is plenty of evidence...and let's suppose we got past arguing the merits of Faith to actually presenting the gospel -claim as evidence.

If so it is legitimate, mate, to point out that the testimony is unsafe because of witnesses contradicting each other. That (even if the omission of events so stupendous that to omit them must mean that the writers had never heard of them is not enough in itself) under the 'clean hands' principle, means that the Gospel claims will not (despite what some ex police detective said) stand up to cross examination in a court of law.

And neither would you. Don't give up your day job at Boeing, hammering aircraft parts so they fit.
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Old 05-27-2019, 06:33 PM
 
13,061 posts, read 4,898,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omega2xx View Post
We are as open minded as you skeptics are. What gaps of knowledge do we use---what fact do we not list---what determines if a story makes the most sense?





Agreed.
how ... list what we have. see if they have a mechanism, explanation, and have predictions that are repeatable.

claims that have those three (I call four when i separate repeat and predictions) are more valid than those that don't

as a non literal atheist, I will stack any claim that people make side by side to determine a relative validity scale. trans sect atheism will not do that. his sect of atheism is as deceitful a any Fundy think theist.
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