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Old 04-15-2019, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
14,933 posts, read 10,126,794 times
Reputation: 2540

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShouldIMoveOrStayPut...? View Post
See below Rafius!

Hooligans.... HOOLIGANS I TELL YOU!!.....

Maybe the saying should read:

"Football is a game where the fans are hooligans
Rugby is a game where the players are hooligans"

Nice try though...




Rugby Hooligans
What's wrong with that. That was a normal game when I played.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast
1,560 posts, read 503,469 times
Reputation: 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I feel a bit sorry for him. He's probably a decent guy in his own way and doesn't much care about what other people do. But this is what fundamentalist religion has done to him. He thinks that he is required to tell people that they are vile sinners and should become like him to be spared hellfire.
Maybe, but I have a VERY hard time believing that a bigot of any stripe is a "good person". Let's not make any excuses here, Trans. Posting some nonsense like that, and this isn't the first time for him, makes him a bigot. He may be a low IQ bigot, but a bigot nonetheless. I don't feel sorry for the white supremacists that were brought up to ignorant bigots, and I certainly don't feel sorry for this ignorant bigot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
So I hope the precedent will now be laid down in Ozz - and will be followed elsewhere - that damning people to hell on religious grounds will be deemed hate speech and will get you thrown off the team, no matter how good you are. And, as recently ruled in the USA, religious belief is not an excuse in law any more than the 'PC gone mad' mantra.
Hopefully so. As I have said a time or two already in this thread, saying stupid stuff that makes your team look bad is grounds to have your contract torn to pieces. It happens here in the US, and it happens elsewhere as well. He even had it written into his contract that he would face penalties if he didn't stop the hate speech. He didn't, and now he's whining about it.... Typical fundie.
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:23 PM
 
37,697 posts, read 10,237,318 times
Reputation: 4992
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's View Post
Maybe, but I have a VERY hard time believing that a bigot of any stripe is a "good person". Let's not make any excuses here, Trans. Posting some nonsense like that, and this isn't the first time for him, makes him a bigot. He may be a low IQ bigot, but a bigot nonetheless. I don't feel sorry for the white supremacists that were brought up to ignorant bigots, and I certainly don't feel sorry for this ignorant bigot.
I watched a very interesting vid on a black guy who engaged with a KKK grand Dragon or whatever. He was a racist bigot, but they talked, became friends, he made a speech that he thought more of the black guy than some of his fellows, and eventually left.

Assuming this is all on the level, this guy was basically a good guy. It was his Dogma that made him bad. This is one of the three Tenet supports of atheist dogma (which doesn't exist, of course); that God believers do not suddenly become snart when they become atheist. They just stop being constrained by Dogma.

That's why I don't hate any apologist here - like out touchstone Northsouth, just change and the problem has vanished.

Quote:
Hopefully so. As I have said a time or two already in this thread, saying stupid stuff that makes your team look bad is grounds to have your contract torn to pieces. It happens here in the US, and it happens elsewhere as well. He even had it written into his contract that he would face penalties if he didn't stop the hate speech. He didn't, and now he's whining about it.... Typical fundie.
Understanding what makes theists tick, especially fundamentalist (as i think is the case, here) theism, makes us more understanding. Some of us, anyway Mind, it makes no difference to the satisfaction that we get if a peddler of Bible-based Bigotry gets hauled over the coals. They have got away with murder for too long.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast
1,560 posts, read 503,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I watched a very interesting vid on a black guy who engaged with a KKK grand Dragon or whatever. He was a racist bigot, but they talked, became friends, he made a speech that he thought more of the black guy than some of his fellows, and eventually left.
You don't become a grand master in the KKK by just saying racist stuff though, Trans. This guy may have had a change of heart (although I would seriously doubt it if he was that far into it), but what he did to get there certainly calls into question his ability to be a good person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Assuming this is all on the level, this guy was basically a good guy. It was his Dogma that made him bad. This is one of the three Tenet supports of atheist dogma (which doesn't exist, of course); that God believers do not suddenly become snart when they become atheist. They just stop being constrained by Dogma.
Oh, I don't actually believe they are all stupid, although I would think the Israel Folau guy isn't the brightest. I was more making the point that being dumb isn't really an excuse to be a bigot. Smart or not, he is certainly ignorant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
That's why I don't hate any apologist here - like out touchstone Northsouth, just change and the problem has vanished.



Understanding what makes theists tick, especially fundamentalist (as i think is the case, here) theism, makes us more understanding. Some of us, anyway Mind, it makes no difference to the satisfaction that we get if a peddler of Bible-based Bigotry gets hauled over the coals. They have got away with murder for too long.
Oh, I don't "hate" anyone on here, or in my personal life. I do know that I sometimes come across on here as a little too blunt, or little rude, and I have apologized to folks for that before. Fact is, I type quickly, and a lot of the times from my phone, and don't read over things to "nice it up" very often. Although, sometimes I mean to be a little too blunt, or rude, to those bigots, so you know....
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Old 04-16-2019, 03:54 AM
 
37,697 posts, read 10,237,318 times
Reputation: 4992
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's View Post
You don't become a grand master in the KKK by just saying racist stuff though, Trans. This guy may have had a change of heart (although I would seriously doubt it if he was that far into it), but what he did to get there certainly calls into question his ability to be a good person.



Oh, I don't actually believe they are all stupid, although I would think the Israel Folau guy isn't the brightest. I was more making the point that being dumb isn't really an excuse to be a bigot. Smart or not, he is certainly ignorant.



Oh, I don't "hate" anyone on here, or in my personal life. I do know that I sometimes come across on here as a little too blunt, or little rude, and I have apologized to folks for that before. Fact is, I type quickly, and a lot of the times from my phone, and don't read over things to "nice it up" very often. Although, sometimes I mean to be a little too blunt, or rude, to those bigots, so you know....
The black guy was certainly convinced when the fellow left the KKK. And some really bright fellows are believers, though of course the less analytical ones may be the easiest to convince and the hardest to think their way out. But I feel that this religious judgementalism is something that religion teaches them, and they probably think it's being helpful, not hateful.

Maybe I'm a less judgemental than I should be, but I people are basically good, though also basically self -serving. Which way they go depends what directives they hook up with. Some aspects of religion make them behave badly, but with the best intentions. That's one problem about religion.

Anyway, thanks for getting a post out of me. I'd been too upset about Notre Dame to post anything yesterday.
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:49 AM
 
37,697 posts, read 10,237,318 times
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Looks like we may 'Down' another one...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-un...israel-folaus/

If we get one " Homophobe" (no mention of Atheist -phobia) tossed out of each Rugby team, that should even things up nicely.

He is of course (as i hinted above) missing the point. It doesn't matter that it isn't said with anger, malice or venom. What matters is that what is said is considered unacceptable.

If, for example, I was to say that women are naturally unfitted to take a lead and should be kept in subordinate and domestic roles, or that terminating disabled people or those with mental problems, both in their own interests and the Nations, it wouldn't matter that it was said coolly, without hate and with the good of everyone in mind, what matters is that it isn't acceptable.

I was thinking about why on the way to the bank (it was raining, so the fuses on the dynamite wouldn't light) and I thought that the reason why something is unacceptable (Aka "Hate Speech") is because it is considered Not True. Perhaps that's why this is rather an important test case.
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:54 AM
 
12,337 posts, read 4,702,528 times
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what happens when good religious people aren't there to stop other religious people from causing harm? How bad can it get when "religious" is the the reason for the execution(s)?

A quicky ...look at poh pot.
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:26 AM
 
Location: NSW
2,675 posts, read 1,816,095 times
Reputation: 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Looks like we may 'Down' another one...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-un...israel-folaus/

If we get one " Homophobe" (no mention of Atheist -phobia) tossed out of each Rugby team, that should even things up nicely.

He is of course (as i hinted above) missing the point. It doesn't matter that it isn't said with anger, malice or venom. What matters is that what is said is considered unacceptable.

If, for example, I was to say that women are naturally unfitted to take a lead and should be kept in subordinate and domestic roles, or that terminating disabled people or those with mental problems, both in their own interests and the Nations, it wouldn't matter that it was said coolly, without hate and with the good of everyone in mind, what matters is that it isn't acceptable.

I was thinking about why on the way to the bank (it was raining, so the fuses on the dynamite wouldn't light) and I thought that the reason why something is unacceptable (Aka "Hate Speech") is because it is considered Not True. Perhaps that's why this is rather an important test case.
And Billy Vunipola only "liked" Israel Folau's post in social media.
As it appears he is remorseful, even as a Fundamentalist Christian, he will likely get off with a warning.
Folau at this stage is standing his ground and is unrepentant about his comments.
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:34 AM
 
37,697 posts, read 10,237,318 times
Reputation: 4992
Ah. Ok.
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast
1,560 posts, read 503,469 times
Reputation: 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
The black guy was certainly convinced when the fellow left the KKK. And some really bright fellows are believers, though of course the less analytical ones may be the easiest to convince and the hardest to think their way out. But I feel that this religious judgementalism is something that religion teaches them, and they probably think it's being helpful, not hateful.
I know there are some really bright religious folks. That's what I was trying to say in my, admittedly not worded very well post. I guess my point is that being a bigot, whether you were taught to be one or not, means little to me. Either you are, or you aren't. Sure, people can change (we see it all the time), but having lived in the southern US my entire life, and actually living in the same town as some known KKK members at one point, I find it VERY hard to believe a grand master just up and changed. Maybe I am wrong, but he would likely be one of the first to ever do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Maybe I'm a less judgemental than I should be, but I people are basically good, though also basically self -serving. Which way they go depends what directives they hook up with. Some aspects of religion make them behave badly, but with the best intentions. That's one problem about religion.
Sure, most people are basically good. I would agree with that. What's the quote? Without religion you would have good people doing good things, and bad people doing bad things, but it takes religion to make good people do bad things... I am paraphrasing based off memory, but it hits home. There are certainly those who believe they are doing the right thing, but that doesn't mean they are "good people", if that makes sense. For instance, those who constantly berate gay people and tell them to repent or go to hell... Anyone with an above room temp IQ knows that isn't helping anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Anyway, thanks for getting a post out of me. I'd been too upset about Notre Dame to post anything yesterday.
I know, it's so sad! Religious or not, we are talking about an 850+ year old building...
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