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Old 04-15-2019, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Florida
19,297 posts, read 19,464,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's View Post
You say "God" we say "Universe". Tomato/Tomahto. We just don't have a need to call something by a different name that it is already known by.
He says "establish" but that doesn't mean "create"
More Mystic wordplay.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:51 PM
 
38,994 posts, read 26,242,385 times
Reputation: 5968
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's View Post
You say "God" we say "Universe". Tomato/Tomahto. We just don't have a need to call something by a different name that it is already known by.
In order to account for Being (a conscious existence), the existing substrate must be a conscious Being. The difference between dead and lifeless physical and chemical processes and Being is unbridgable otherwise, IMO, and no one has even suggested how such a divide can reasonably be bridged other than by euphemistic observation of its occurrence. The physical and chemical process issue, like the infinite regress of Creation, provides no explanation for the processes' existence or mandates either.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:54 PM
 
8,344 posts, read 4,905,706 times
Reputation: 9397
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
How do I "know"?

No, I don't know.

It's my belief in faith that if there is a God out there then one of his characteristic is that he must not have a beginning or an end - otherwise it's not a God.

If God has a beginning and an end, then you tell me, what was it like BEFORE God?
How God came into being? Does God have a creator?
If yes, then who is the creator of God's creator? This loop will never end till you realize that whatever came first, was always there.


Or your other choice is.
There was nothing there before God. An absolute void!

Then the question is,
Did God decide to create himself when he did not exist?

This is also ridiculous. You cannot decide to create your ownself when you don't exist.
This is the logic problem for those who believe in God.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast
1,549 posts, read 502,096 times
Reputation: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
In order to account for Being (a conscious existence), the existing substrate must be a conscious Being. The difference between dead and lifeless physical and chemical processes and Being is unbridgable otherwise, IMO, and no one has even suggested how such a divide can reasonably be bridged other than by euphemistic observation of its occurrence. The physical and chemical process issue, like the infinite regress of Creation, provides no explanation for the processes' existence or mandates either.
To quote Raf... That is your opinion. There is no reason for anyone else to accept it.

In order for someone to believe something is "God", it would have to have purpose or intelligence behind it. Otherwise, who cares? In your "Everything is God and God is everything", there is no such purpose or intelligence, right? Correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:14 PM
 
38,994 posts, read 26,242,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's View Post
To quote Raf... That is your opinion. There is no reason for anyone else to accept it.

In order for someone to believe something is "God", it would have to have purpose or intelligence behind it. Otherwise, who cares? In your "Everything is God and God is everything", there is no such purpose or intelligence, right? Correct me if I am wrong.
You are wrong, existence and continued life is the purpose of Being and that does not necessarily require the involvement of Willful creation, just existence. The existing attributes of that continued life define it and our collective consciousness and intelligence are attributes of it.
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Old 04-15-2019, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast
1,549 posts, read 502,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are wrong, existence and continued life is the purpose of Being and that does not necessarily require the involvement of Willful creation, just existence. The existing attributes of that continued life define it and our collective consciousness and intelligence are attributes of it.
To me, for something to be called God, it needs to be more than just.... here. I didn't mean "purpose" the way you used it either. I meant a purpose behind actions, which would require intelligence behind it. If something simply "is", and we came about because it simply "exists", I have no reason to call or define that as God. You are, of course, free to believe that merely existing is enough to call something God, but I do not.
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Old 04-15-2019, 04:28 PM
 
3,326 posts, read 1,040,026 times
Reputation: 652
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
How do I "know"?

No, I don't know.

It's my belief in faith that if there is a God out there then one of his characteristic is that he must not have a beginning or an end - otherwise it's not a God.

If God has a beginning and an end, then you tell me, what was it like BEFORE God?
How God came into being? Does God have a creator?
If yes, then who is the creator of God's creator? This loop will never end till you realize that whatever came first, was always there.


Or your other choice is.
There was nothing there before God. An absolute void!

Then the question is,
Did God decide to create himself when he did not exist?

This is also ridiculous. You cannot decide to create your ownself when you don't exist.
Quote:
If God has a beginning and an end, then you tell me, what was it like BEFORE God?
How God came into being? Does God have a creator?
If yes, then who is the creator of God's creator? This loop will never end till you realize that whatever came first, was always there.
These are questions that are asked by someone who wants to know the answers.

you have faith, you already made up your answer
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Old 04-15-2019, 04:30 PM
 
3,326 posts, read 1,040,026 times
Reputation: 652
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
We are already assuming for the sake of this discussion that there IS a god - so your statement, even though a valid possibility, is out of scope for this discussion.
have you ever assumed it the other way?
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:20 PM
 
38,994 posts, read 26,242,385 times
Reputation: 5968
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
He says "establish" but that doesn't mean "create"
More Mystic wordplay.
My existence establishes the environment for my cells to live and die as part of me, but I did not have anything to do with their creation. I am not their Creator despite my existence being the reason for their existence.
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Old Yesterday, 05:37 AM
 
405 posts, read 222,730 times
Reputation: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
My existence establishes the environment for my cells to live and die as part of me, but I did not have anything to do with their creation. I am not their Creator despite my existence being the reason for their existence.
Another way to possibly say the same thing is that in Man (and everything else created), Essence and Existence are separate. If you cease to exist Man (the essence) does not cease to exist. The Essence of Man existed before you and will exist after you are gone. What a Man is is separate from any individual man.

But in God, Essence and Existence are identical. God is his own existence. God is the special case that must be assumed to resolve the contradictions of the infinite regress.
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