U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old Today, 02:32 PM
 
38,068 posts, read 10,366,567 times
Reputation: 5013

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by auralmack View Post
whew! enough of that monkey face thinking. Mindless dribble. I think you would be better suited in a cage across from another mindless twit in a cage throwing feces at each other for fun.
You are still dismissing anything that doesn't suit you, with nothing more than dismissal. You can dismiss it with any analogous deprecatory - or deprescatory - scenario that you like; it is still nothing more than dismissal.

 
Old Today, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,330 posts, read 13,980,745 times
Reputation: 15534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
you have to answer to your sect's of atheism anti-religious/god dogma.

You guys have to deceive people because you are afraid theist may use some of the science and make atheism harder to sell.
That's amusing.

Why don't we treat religion as the drug that it really is -- the opiate of the masses -- and require people be at least 18 years of age before voluntarily choosing to be indoctrinated.

How long to do you think christianity would last in the US if no one was brain-washed, indoctrinated and inculcated with religious dogma from infancy?
 
Old Today, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Missouri
467 posts, read 154,485 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
The "intelligent design" for a solar system is entirely natural. Suns and solar systems occur due to quantum mechanics, and the gravity caused by the clumping together of matter... which is caused by quantum mechanics. These things occur entirely by natural means. Because we live in a universe of energy, and energy interacts with itself. One of the forms that energy takes, quite by natural means, is matter. And matter is the stuff of the stars and planets, the sun and the moon, and you and me. No "intelligent design" is required. Your ignorance of the underlying causes of how the universe works doesn't mean that these things haven't already been worked out. Ignorance is a quality that we all possess, when we simply do no know something. Profound ignorance occurs when the knowledge has been presented to us, but we can't be bothered to examine it. Or because it conflicts with answers we have made up and declared to be true (make believe), because we prefer to embrace our make believe.

Allow me to give you a short demonstration of quantum mechanics in action. Tornados:

Here in the USA the conditions are right for a phenomenon called tornadoes. Tornadoes are often called "the finger of God," but in truth they have no connection to anything intelligent. They are caused entirely by the conditions that exist in the American midwest, and the fact that energy interacts with itself. They occur, like everything else in the universe occurs, because of a process called quantum mechanics at work.

The sun is constantly streaming out radiation, which is to say, tiny bits of quanta, some of which is charged either positively or negatively. Because positively and negatively charged particles either attract or repel each other, when these particles strike the earth they cause the earth's molecules to react by moving in response. You have direct evidence of this every time you stand in the sun. Positive and negative bits of radiation from the sun strike your skin, which is composed of bits of matter that is also positively and negatively charged. When the charged particles from the sun strike your skin, the molecules of your skin are forced to adjust (move) in response. This movement is what we detect as heat. The same thing happen to the ground, or to water, when they are bathed in charged particles from the sun. The ground heats up rather quickly. Large bodies of water, like the ocean, heat up more slowly. This creates a disparity. Nature hates a disparity and attempts to correct it. Science refers to this attempt by nature to correct disparity (unbalance) as entropy.

The more southern latitudes, being more directly in line with the sun, receive more of this solar heating. Conversely, the northern latitudes receive less. This is why it is noticeably cooler at the poles then at the equator.

As the sun shines on the Gulf of Mexico, the nice warm tropical Caribbean, the air molecules become more active and spread out, causing the air to become lighter. As you may know, warm air rises. It rises because as the molecules of air spread out, they become less dense in volume and therefore lighter. In the gulf of Mexico however, the sun also causes the waters of the Caribbean to evaporate. The water molecules fill in the spaces between the air molecules more heavily, causing the air to be dense and heavy with water molecules (H2O). We call this humidity, and if you have ever been in any of the southern United States in the summer, most especially Florida, then you have had direct experience with humidity. It's like a sauna in the summer.

Water heats more slowly than the land does however. So air over land masses can heat heat quite rapidly whereas the air over water remains cooler. Disparity! As the warm air inland rises, the relatively cooler humid air over the Gulf is pulled in to fill the vacuum. We refer to this resulting movement of air as "wind," and it has nothing to do with the supernatural. It is an ENTIRELY natural process at work. In the far north over Canada the cool dense air is also pulled towards the vacuum caused by the warm rising air over the mid-section of the US. And here is where tornadoes are born.

When the warm but moisture heavy air from the south meets with the cold air from the north, things can turn violent. The moisture in the warm humid air from the south very quickly condenses and turns into rain. If the cold northern air is below freezing at elevation, when the cold air encounters the heavily moisture ladened air from the south hail (ice) is produced. Not just any hail either. Big chunks of ice fall from the sky large enough to kill. When the naturally warm air from the south is suddenly relieved of its moisture, it instantly becomes lighter, and rapidly rises. The heavier cool air from the north falls into the vacuum caused by the rapidly rising warm air. When the conditions between the cold air mass and the warm air mass are disparate enough, and the abrupt loss of moisture in the warm air is rapid enough, this can cause a violently rotating column of air to form at speeds of several hundred miles per hour.

We call this a tornado. And it has nothing to do with any intelligence. It occurs because there are positively and negatively charged particles (quanta) from the sun constantly bathing the earth. Because oppositely charged particles (quanta) are attracted to each other, while particles (quanta) with like charges are repelled by each other. This is the driving principle behind quantum mechanics, and quantum mechanics is the driving force behind everything that occurs. Quantum mechanics occurs because matter/energy NATURALLY interacts with itself. Positive and negative charges are responsible for the sun, the stars, and the very thoughts in your brain.

Make believe is not involved. Crediting all of this to God or the gods or any supernatural cause at all, yes, that is fictitious. And things which are fictitious can be SHOWN to be fictitious.

In 1994 a tornado hit the Goshen Alabama Methodist Church during Sunday service, causing the walls of the church to collapse. Twenty people died including six children. Why would God allow the deaths of those in His own house of worship, including the most innocent, who were there in the very act of worshiping him, when all He had to do was to prevent the walls from collapsing? The problem is that when put to the test, make believe is invariably unaffected by the harsh realities of real life. If you encounter winds of several hundred miles an hour, and a wall falls on you, make believe does not serve as protection. Even for innocent children. But the truth is, that no god, no supernatural cause, was responsible. What occurred was the result of entirely natural forces at work! It's simply bad luck,i.e., being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Because life is something of a crap shoot.
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/04/03/us...ith-holds.html

The point is, in real life what we actually observe is that when the chips are down and faith is confronted by reality, reality will ALWAYS win out. When the chips are down and a Supreme Being would really REALLY come in handy, God, invisible unknowable but assumed to exist anyway God, will invariably act in exactly the same manner as a God who isn't actually there. In fact a God who refuses to act even in the face of the ultimate crisis of life and death for the most innocent of His followers is a God who corresponds in every way to A GOD WHO NEVER EXISTED TO BEGIN WITH! What exactly is the difference? This is as close to an empirical test for the actual existence of God as one might reasonably hope for. And in these sorts of make or break tests, the result for the question "does God exist," invariably corresponds in every way to a negative finding. That means NO!

Now let me make it clear. God is not to blame for so called "acts of God." Life can be random and capricious. Bad things can happen to people who are simply attempting to be "good." Reality (natural processes at work) is completely indifferent to the needs and struggles of life. Including human lives.

Too much writing? Then by all means, choose to remain ignorant. But at least try to understand why your superstitious arguments have no impact on those who have not chosen superstitious ignorance over actually making an effort to understand what is occurring and why.



Yup!



AS I have already indicated, humans are literally an example of the universe attempting to contemplate itself. It seems that humans must go through a superstitious stage of subscribing to make believe, before learning to work out the answers based on what the universe is actually telling us. Then we need to learn to pay attention and stop making up answers that happen to suit us.
Way too much of what I already know.

By all means, you remain ignorant and choose your own superstitious BS.

I think you are very superstitious and very superficial and completely ignorant of the simple three letter word God; your concept of the word is based upon complete ignorance; and to add to that, you like Trans, keep pushing your concept of the word, as the only one possible, based upon Nothing but your vain expectations of what God is and is not, making up your own answers that suit yourselves about what the word God means and does not mean, based upon BS. Quite naturally, nothing created the Solar System, it just happened just Naturally for no reason, just like everything else upon earth with Intelligent Design just happened naturally before Nature even existed. Out of every big bang from all the big bombs that ever boomed created what came naturally is a wasteland. Big Bombs, Big Bangs galore upon earth and still creating Nothing in and of itself. Big Bang Bombs creating Solar Systems...go sell that to your pigs.
 
Old Today, 02:49 PM
 
38,068 posts, read 10,366,567 times
Reputation: 5013
I'm really impressed to read of how much you already knew about Quantum physics. Pity that didn't extend to something simpler- like planetary evolution. There were a couple of Steps between 'nothing' and planets.
 
Old Today, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Missouri
467 posts, read 154,485 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
You are still dismissing anything that doesn't suit you, with nothing more than dismissal. You can dismiss it with any analogous deprecatory - or deprescatory - scenario that you like; it is still nothing more than dismissal.
Sounds like you are still talking about that guy in your mirror.

Nonetheless, where is the reasoning behind this, looks like jumping to conclusions, no meat, nonsense, mere accusations without any support; What are you referring to? What you can't stand is someone holding a different opinion than you have and quickly resort to monkey antics; you can think and believe whatever you want; and most certainly, I'll dismiss this vulgar post about a "Topic" of what you are trying to discuss here. Not interested. Monkey Antics. BS.
 
Old Today, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,330 posts, read 13,980,745 times
Reputation: 15534
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The survival drive is integral to ALL life or there would be no continued reproduction and therefore no life.
You're putting the cart before the horse.

The raison d'Ítre for every species that has ever existed is to procreate in order to propagate the species to ensure its survival.

That is the sole purpose and function of every species, including humans, and there is no other purpose or function.

The instinct to survive is secondary, and is in furtherance of the primary function, which is to procreate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
Perhaps *the* strongest drive all life - including humans - has is to procreate. You cannot procreate if you're dead thus most lifeforms have a strong survival instinct, as well.

Notice how many lower lifeforms such as insects die soon after procreating. Their function has been served and thus, they have no reason to continue living.

Evolution can explain that. There's nothing intrinsically divine about the instinct to survive.
Excellent point.
 
Old Today, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,330 posts, read 13,980,745 times
Reputation: 15534
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Are you suggesting that the first life form (prokaryote?) thought about avoiding pain and connected it to staying alive?

It didn't have a brain to think, and so it couldn't have been connected to your god-thing, and yet it existed and thrived anyway, which destroys the premise of your thread.
 
Old Today, 03:59 PM
 
39,227 posts, read 26,348,716 times
Reputation: 5986
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
If you evaluated what goes on in your body as a consequence of your need to live and survive you would not equate it with the love in your consciousness either. A similar distinction could be drawn between God's body (our Reality = immanence) and God's consciousness (the substrate for our Reality = transcendence).

The definition of life is reproduction but the drive to survive is endemic to the very existence of life which in my view IS the life of God - making all life "divine" if you insist on using that unnecessary word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
God is where the survival drive originates as an endemic aspect of God's life. What is your source for the origin of such a unique drive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Are you suggesting that the first life form (prokaryote?) thought about avoiding pain and connected it to staying alive? Are you suggesting that the origin of the survival drive (which IS the "desire to continue living") is the desire to continue living?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The survival drive is integral to ALL life or there would be no continued reproduction and therefore no life. The sophistication by which it manifests is what changes as the complexity of the organism is increased, currently culminating in the various evolved types of brains and responses in various species.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
You're putting the cart before the horse.

The raison d'Ítre for every species that has ever existed is to procreate in order to propagate the species to ensure its survival.

That is the sole purpose and function of every species, including humans, and there is no other purpose or function.
The instinct to survive is secondary, and is in furtherance of the primary function, which is to procreate.
Take apart your own sentence to see what is primary and what is secondary.

The raison d'Ítre for every species that has ever existed is to procreate in order to propagate the species to ensure its survival.

The raison d'Ítre for every species that has ever existed is to ensure its survival - to do that it procreates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
It didn't have a brain to think, and so it couldn't have been connected to your god-thing, and yet it existed and thrived anyway, which destroys the premise of your thread.
You have not grasped the implications of my view or have simply chosen to ignore them. I repeat:

If you evaluated what goes on in your body as a consequence of your need to live and survive you would not equate it with either the love in your consciousness or with your ability to think but it is still part of you.

A similar distinction could be drawn between God's body (our Reality = immanence) and God's consciousness (the substrate for our Reality = transcendence).

Is this analogy to difficult for you to grasp?
 
Old Today, 04:05 PM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
10,954 posts, read 10,842,208 times
Reputation: 7284
I may go back and try to clean out the political remarks about Communism. I may also try to clean out all the remarks about astronomy and physics. Then again, I may not. This is the Religion and Spirituality forum.
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: http://www.city-data.com/terms.html
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top