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Are you suggesting that the first life form (prokaryote?) thought about avoiding pain and connected it to staying alive? Are you suggesting that the origin of the survival drive (which IS the "desire to continue living") is the desire to continue living?
Perhaps *the* strongest drive all life - including humans - has is to procreate. You cannot procreate if you're dead thus most lifeforms have a strong survival instinct, as well.
Notice how many lower lifeforms such as insects die soon after procreating. Their function has been served and thus, they have no reason to continue living.
Evolution can explain that. There's nothing intrinsically divine about the instinct to survive.
God is where the survival drive originates as an endemic aspect of God's life. What is your source for the origin of such a unique drive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold
Plant life also shares this 'survival drive.'
Our planet would have been reduced to rock, dirt and water a very long time ago if this were not so
THIS. I sense some possible conflation (in this discussion) with a conscious "will to live, but unless we're going to start talking about the consciousness of plants, the so-called drive to survive is not all that unique. Organisms that figured out how to survive (at least long enough to propagate, per Shirina's insect example) were given a strong and obvious evolutionary advantage. If you didn't, you and your species die out. I don't think it even rises to the level of "instinct" and certainly not to the level of conscious effort.
Just trying to comprehend your reasoning about the origin of the survival drive you take for granted.
For many years now I have had one or more parrots. When they do something instinctual that they couldn't have learned from other birds, I don't say, "God done it".
THIS. I sense some possible conflation (in this discussion) with a conscious "will to live, but unless we're going to start talking about the consciousness of plants, the so-called drive to survive is not all that unique. Organisms that figured out how to survive (at least long enough to propagate, per Shirina's insect example) were given a strong and obvious evolutionary advantage. If you didn't, you and your species die out. I don't think it even rises to the level of "instinct" and certainly not to the level of conscious effort.
No...but you need to look at the beginnings of Instinct as a DNA mutation that happened to give a survival advantage (tough skin; darker colour). This is what caused the evolutionary arms-race for competition and survival and passed on Genetic instincts were the reaction to environmental challenges. Even now - we don't think instinct, though we may think about it afterwards.
This is not to be confused with conscious thought that is both slower and more rational than instinct. Though learned thought can become 'learned' instinct. Consciousness I also see as evolved from animal problem-solving and is also a survival ability.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-03-2019 at 11:44 AM..
No...but you need to look at the beginnings of Instinct as a DNA mutation that happened …..(snip).
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but if the instinct/urge/means to survive (propagate)wasn't there at the very beginning, there would have been nothing to pass a mutated gene onto
God is where the survival drive originates as an endemic aspect of God's life. What is your source for the origin of such a unique drive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
Evolution. Not God. If you thought about what evolution got critters to do in order to ensure species-survival, you'd never use the words 'God' and 'Love' int he same sentence.
If you evaluated what goes on in your body as a consequence of your need to live and survive you would not equate it with the love in your consciousness either. A similar distinction could be drawn between God's body (our Reality = immanence) and God's consciousness (the substrate for our Reality = transcendence).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Perhaps *the* strongest drive all life - including humans - has is to procreate. You cannot procreate if you're dead thus most lifeforms have a strong survival instinct, as well.
Notice how many lower lifeforms such as insects die soon after procreating. Their function has been served and thus, they have no reason to continue living.
Evolution can explain that. There's nothing intrinsically divine about the instinct to survive.
The definition of life is reproduction but the drive to survive is endemic to the very existence of life which in my view IS the life of God - making all life "divine" if you insist on using that unnecessary word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold
Plant life also shares this 'survival drive.'
Our planet would have been reduced to rock, dirt, and water a very long time ago if this were not so
QED, Shirina.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
No...but you need to look at the beginnings of Instinct as a DNA mutation that happened to give a survival advantage (tough skin; darker colour).
I'll let old_cold get your mind in the correct context.
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but if the instinct/urge/means to survive (propagate) wasn't there at the very beginning, there would have been nothing to pass a mutated gene onto
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but if the instinct/urge/means to survive (propagate)wasn't there at the very beginning, there would have been nothing to pass a mutated gene onto
This is informed speculation,but the hypothesis is that where life started was when biochemical compounds first developed replication.DNA-style. That was 'reproduction'.When DNA developed out of RNA and the Amino-acids -proteins that was there before, mutation (which is thought to be through cosmic rays, Quantum
leading to come genes changing through proton-exchange and thus having to combine with different genes lled naturally to physical changes withing the earliest cells that gave some a natural survival advantage. This was all more physical laws than 'instinct' and when this led from - say a plant having a physical mutation that survived being eaten better than another led to an evolutionary arms race, the DNA-encoded survival reactions becoming activated through the brain, which in dinosaurs was more a motor - control in the ass than a problem -solver in the head (which was a problem-info -detection and assessment device). This 'problem - solving'became a more complex activator of a store of' fight or flight' instincts that we begin to see as 'will' or intent.
If materialists have Faith it is that human reasoning can be explained as a very developed problem solving
mechanism and it can be traced back through evolution of instinct along with life.
That's my story anyway, and I'm sticking to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
If you evaluated what goes on in your body as a consequence of your need to live and survive you would not equate it with the love in your consciousness either. A similar distinction could be drawn between God's body (our Reality = immanence) and God's consciousness (the substrate for our Reality = transcendence).
The definition of life is reproduction but the drive to survive is endemic to the very existence of life which in my view IS the life of God - making all life "divine" if you insist on using that unnecessary word.
QED, Shirina.
I'll let old_cold get your mind in the correct context.
'Love' is one of the instinctive reactions encoded in our heads, Mystic. Made a complex one by complex social interactions that have come from our success (as we call it ) as a species and mystified and anthropologized rather as we (other goddless bastards, materialists and baby-eaters) see other Instincts (evolved or learned) claimed as God-given, simply because we cannot otherwise explain them.
That's the Faith -belief I'm' peddling, at any rate.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-03-2019 at 09:02 PM..
This is informed speculation,but the hypothesis is that where life started was when biochemical compounds first developed replication.DNA-style. That was 'reproduction'.When DNA developed out of RNA and the Amino-acids -proteins that was there before, mutation (which is thought to be through cosmic rays, Quantum leading to come genes changing through proton-exchange and thus having to combine with different genes led naturally to physical changes within the earliest cells that gave some a natural survival advantage. This was all more physical laws than 'instinct' and when this led from - say a plant having a physical mutation that survived being eaten better than another led to an evolutionary arms race, the DNA-encoded survival reactions becoming activated through the brain, which in dinosaurs was more a motor - control in the ass than a problem -solver in the head (which was a problem-info -detection and assessment device). This 'problem - solving'became a more complex activator of a store of' fight or flight' instincts that we begin to see as 'will' or intent.
If materialists have Faith it is that human reasoning can be explained as a very developed problem solving
mechanism and it can be traced back through evolution of instinct along with life.
That's my story anyway, and I'm sticking to it.
'Love' is one of the instinctive reactions encoded in our heads, Mystic. Made a complex one by complex social interactions that have come from our success (as we call it ) as a species and mystified and anthropologized rather as we (other godless bastards, materialists and baby-eaters) see other Instincts (evolved or learned) claimed as God-given, simply because we cannot otherwise explain them.
That's the Faith -belief I'm' peddling, at any rate.
I will just have to assume you had no clue what was being argued and had no answer because this is non-responsive.
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it is that human reasoning can be explained as a very developed problem solving
