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Old 04-25-2019, 07:55 AM
 
331 posts, read 60,548 times
Reputation: 146

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
When you expect God to prevent all tragedy from happening to children then you are basically asking Him to put a bandaid on the bleeding while allowing the source of the bleeding to continue. God does have a plan to stop the pain and bleeding for good. So no more rape. No more disease. No more killing and pain. But it will require destroying all the unsaved. God could snap His fingers and end it all right now, but He is patient to wait and give as many people as possible to have the chance to accept Christ.
I have no such expectations or illusions. But the claim has been made that the outcome of this particular event (boy falling 40 feet, regardless of how that happened) was a miracle, brought about by prayers to God. If we accept that, and accept that God is powerful enough to accomplish whatever He wants... that raises the logical question:

If God was going to the trouble of intervening in this particular instance (i.e., the miracle), why didn't He do a better job of it, by either preventing it from occuring in the first place, or minimizing the harm? As it is, He apparently wanted to intervene just enough to prevent death, but not enough to avoid what were still very serious injuries.

Last edited by HeelaMonster; 04-25-2019 at 08:03 AM..
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,392 posts, read 19,528,373 times
Reputation: 22607
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The thing that atheists like is humility. Trust me, I'm not saying that as a criticism, even though many fundamentalists would put it that way as well. But it takes true humility and a willingness to admit a need for God before a person can see God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Been asked before without any understandable answer...What is this supposed 'need'?
Anybody surprised that Ozzy didn't answer this ?
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:35 AM
 
37,998 posts, read 10,339,015 times
Reputation: 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
Where do you get the idea that earth is a place where you aren't supposed to suffer? This is the crux of your problem. You do not get to decide who can and can't be harmed. Actually, I'm glad you mentioned this. So many evil people who do evil things to OTHER people cannot take it when something bad happens to their own. Do you have the same concern for kids in Africa losing limbs because they're mining precious stones for some greedy European who really doesn't need it?? Or do all those kids deserve it? More and more, I'm starting to believe earth is hell, and all the people who never learned their lesson are stuck here repeating the same things over and over again. They lost their souls long ago, so now they're empty vessels who are slaves to the adversarial spirits. It would explain nasty attitudes like yours. If you knew you could never ascend to higher planes where there is no suffering, I guess you would be a miserable person. In higher planes, your thoughts are things. What you think manifests immediately. Earth is training ground since there is lag time between thoughts (ideas) and the manifestation of that thought (which requires action on your part). Every evil act begins with an evil thought. If you cannot control your evil thoughts you will not be allowed to ascend to higher planes where your thoughts can have immediate consequences. People who do not understand that everything is ONE and all things affect the ONE cannot leave this plane. Some people call these "earth bound" souls, but I do not believe everyone has a soul. As I said before, there are many among us who are just empty seats for negative entities. Figure our which you are.
I already know which i am thanks. But you will never understand, because....it's just too long to explain here, and you couldn't get your head around it anyway.

All that i need to say is that none of the above gives your suggestion that this kid suffered injuries that were not however fatal (thanks to science) because as a sinner or his parents or humanity as a whole meant that he had it coming, any kind of sense, since neither the punishment nor the miracle worked perfectly, even if it was not a disgusting suggestion, which it is.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:04 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
76,747 posts, read 68,746,261 times
Reputation: 74124
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
There is something unusual in the fact that it occurred as part of a higher profile news story. The original news story was focused on the criminal who pushed the child. What was his motivation in trying to hurt a child? What will the child's survival say to him (or to other potential criminals) about that?

I predict that atheists will hate this story. They seem to hate anything good that happens if it challenges their belief system.

You can complain about religion all day, but you could never say that about a religious person. The truth cannot be suppressed.
Did you read the part that said the child needs several surgeries to repair the damage, though? There was no miracle. A kid was thrown 3 stories, survived but with serious damage requiring multiple surgeries, and is struggling to heal from the experience. The family has said this:

Quote:
More than $700,000 has been raised for Landen Hoffmann's medical expenses on GoFundMe and he is reportedly making "small steps toward the healing process."

In a statement on the site Wednesday, the family wrote, “The power of prayer is simply amazing. We all have been extremely humbled by the outpouring of support and prayers from everyone.”
It sounds like the blessing here, is that the "power of prayer" brought the family some cha-ching, with which to pay for the needed surgeries.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:05 AM
Status: "Apparently being "treemoni" is its own offense. :)" (set 1 day ago)
 
3,774 posts, read 1,960,889 times
Reputation: 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
even if it was not a disgusting suggestion, which it is.
It's only disgusting because a certain segment of society thinks they can inflict harm and pain on others, but when it happens to them, all of a sudden the world must stop and overflow with empathy. It doesn't work like that. Because you are not God, you do not have access to these peoples deeds, past or conscious. There are infinite possibilities why this happened. It could be karma, or it could be that sh*t happens. We don't know. What some of us do know is that you can't escape your own actions or thoughts. It's very simple: everything you do to someone else, you do to yourself. Forgiveness/repentance are how you can avoid feeling the pain you bring on others. Absent that, you WILL pay...whether it's in this life or another. Just because you think someone may be innocent doesn't mean they are. I am not saying this boy isn't innocent. I'm saying I don't know, and neither do you.

In the Bible God punished the nation for the deeds of one. Why? Because it was necessary for them to understand that EVERYONE in the nation is accountable; everyone is responsible for ensuring the others are righteous. Very different from the system we live in where some people get to escape rules and accountability. If you benefit from that system, enjoy it while you can, for it is headed for destruction.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:11 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,854 posts, read 4,641,804 times
Reputation: 1316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicorn hunter View Post
I don't care if it was a miracle, good doctors, the fact that he was young, or the way he hit the ground, I'm just glad he's going to be ok! And I hope the guy who did this gets the help he needs as well.
I care about the truth, though. Still happy that this weird miracle of a man rarely throwing a child ending with the recovery of the child after 10 days in the ICU, like other children who fall down similar hights, they often survive and recover. I am very happy about this recovery, not happy that it is being used as propaganda for false religions, and happy that the truth is obvious regardless of what people would "want."
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:13 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,854 posts, read 4,641,804 times
Reputation: 1316
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
The kid has broken bones, internal injuries and a long recovery ahead.
Jeff makes it sound like a 'real miracle", like the kid got up and walked away
Fox News local quoted "The doctor said blah blah.... and the [probably not the doctor, but we are not going to tell you that] incident-damage was compared to falling [implicating 2 feet] off a bike!"
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:31 AM
 
37,998 posts, read 10,339,015 times
Reputation: 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
It's only disgusting because a certain segment of society thinks they can inflict harm and pain on others, but when it happens to them, all of a sudden the world must stop and overflow with empathy. It doesn't work like that. Because you are not God, you do not have access to these peoples deeds, past or conscious. There are infinite possibilities why this happened. It could be karma, or it could be that sh*t happens. We don't know. What some of us do know is that you can't escape your own actions or thoughts. It's very simple: everything you do to someone else, you do to yourself. Forgiveness/repentance are how you can avoid feeling the pain you bring on others. Absent that, you WILL pay...whether it's in this life or another. Just because you think someone may be innocent doesn't mean they are. I am not saying this boy isn't innocent. I'm saying I don't know, and neither do you.

In the Bible God punished the nation for the deeds of one. Why? Because it was necessary for them to understand that EVERYONE in the nation is accountable; everyone is responsible for ensuring the others are righteous. Very different from the system we live in where some people get to escape rules and accountability. If you benefit from that system, enjoy it while you can, for it is headed for destruction.
Still disgusting. Of course humanist ethics means that we all have responsibility to the world we live in, because we have to live in it. But the days when you punished an entire nation because one person displeased a god are (thankfully) gone. And we don't want them back. The best parts of your post (which shows that you understand human morality very well) are humanist ethics. The bits of Bible that you lute onto that are simply outmoded bronze age ethics, and pretty poor even for the bronze -age. It is more about terrifying everone into obedience.
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:31 PM
Status: "Apparently being "treemoni" is its own offense. :)" (set 1 day ago)
 
3,774 posts, read 1,960,889 times
Reputation: 5198
You don't see the positive because you can't think beyond this material world. There was a time where there was peace on earth, but disobedience made way for death. People had to suffer through the consequences of their actions so they can feel the weight of them. The idea being that hopefully they won't repeat it. If all you know is "good" then you are not going to recognize "bad" or know how to deal with or avoid it when it comes. This is a very hard concept for people who have never really had to deal with adversity. They think life is supposed to be great all the time because for the most part, life is good for them all the time. But it is "good" for them not because they are good, but because they exploit others for their own gain. This selfishness will serve you as long as God is allowing the adversarial entities to have their time. But time is drawing to a close. The upper echelon knows it (which explains all this chaos) but their minions don't. We are going to RETURN to a time of peace on earth because there WAS peace at some point in history. Those who have exploited others will taste judgment, and they won't know how to handle it because they've lived on easy street for most of their existence here. Not knowing how to handle suffering is why the millionaire commits suicide when he loses investments or a job, but the person who has been poor all his life, doesn't. The "reward" for being righteous in your time on earth is that your soul (if you have one) can go on to higher realms where there is no suffering. Some souls have already passed this level but came back voluntarily to help the rest of the people who lack understanding and have been repeating the same cycles for ages.
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:46 PM
 
3,410 posts, read 1,060,407 times
Reputation: 667
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
You don't see the positive because you can't think beyond this material world. There was a time where there was peace on earth,but disobedience made way for death. People had to suffer through the consequences of their actions so they can feel the weight of them. The idea being that hopefully they won't repeat it. If all you know is "good" then you are not going to recognize "bad" or know how to deal with or avoid it when it comes. This is a very hard concept for people who have never really had to deal with adversity. They think life is supposed to be great all the time because for the most part, life is good for them all the time. But it is "good" for them not because they are good, but because they exploit others for their own gain. This selfishness will serve you as long as God is allowing the adversarial entities to have their time. But time is drawing to a close. The upper echelon knows it (which explains all this chaos) but their minions don't. We are going to RETURN to a time of peace on earth because there WAS peace at some point in history. Those who have exploited others will taste judgment, and they won't know how to handle it because they've lived on easy street for most of their existence here. Not knowing how to handle suffering is why the millionaire commits suicide when he loses investments or a job, but the person who has been poor all his life, doesn't. The "reward" for being righteous in your time on earth is that your soul (if you have one) can go on to higher realms where there is no suffering. Some souls have already passed this level but came back voluntarily to help the rest of the people who lack understanding and have been repeating the same cycles for ages.
Do you have a date when there was peace on earth?

Was that just before god sneezed out Adam?

Last edited by mensaguy; 04-25-2019 at 04:32 PM.. Reason: Don't use white text again. It's deceptive.
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