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Old 04-28-2019, 10:41 PM
 
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Hi there! I'm looking for a few people who identify as Agnostic to answer some questions and give me some input for my research paper about Agnosticism. It's basically about understanding Agnosticism as a philosophy, correcting the juxtaposition around the belief, and analyzing the relevancy of the future for Agnosticism as it rises in popularity in younger generations.

Some questions I have that you may build off of:

Who is an Agnostic? What are their values, interests, hobbies, and beliefs. How much significance does it hold in your life?

I wonder if the appeal to Agnosticism is that you may decide what it means to you? Why were you appealed?

How much does Agnosticism differ from person to person?

Do majority of Agnostics hold the same belief or different beliefs?

Why do you think the increase is so rapid and recent?

What do you think the increase in Agnosticism means for the future of religion?
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Old 04-28-2019, 11:47 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,849 posts, read 4,641,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user1999 View Post
Hi there! I'm looking for a few people who identify as Agnostic to answer some questions and give me some input for my research paper about Agnosticism. It's basically about understanding Agnosticism as a philosophy, correcting the juxtaposition around the belief, and analyzing the relevancy of the future for Agnosticism as it rises in popularity in younger generations.

Some questions I have that you may build off of:

[1] Who is an Agnostic? [2] What are their values, interests, hobbies, and beliefs. [3] How much significance does it hold in your life?

I wonder if the appeal to Agnosticism is that you may decide what it means to you? [4] Why were you appealed?

[5] How much does Agnosticism differ from person to person?

[6] Do majority of Agnostics hold the same belief or different beliefs?

[7] Why do you think the increase is so rapid and recent?

[8] What do you think the increase in Agnosticism means for the future of religion?
What sort of research paper? For high school? For undergraduate college?

Hopefully, you are going to cite your sources, right? And the good ones you rely on are going to be scholarly sores in the primary-resource persuasion. Or are you just collecting data? How is your supervisor/grader going to believe that you actually collected the data instead of making it up?

1. Every sentient being capable of good thought (which would always include doubt) would understand that anything and its negation can always be doubted, and would thus be a confessing agnostic.

2. The agnosticism of confessing agnostics is simply about epistemology (whether religious or otherwise)- it is not really about any specific personal values, interests, hobbies, and beliefs. As such, they can technically differ greatly. However, it seems that often times people come to ideas based on their connections and exposures, so you will find that most agnostics value higher education, are interested in intellectual pursuits, have mostly scientific beliefs, etc.

3. The significance of agnosticism and epistemology to confessing or self-labeled agnostics largely follows the same conceptualization and pattern as the person focuses listed in your second question.

4. What you have done here is a "leading question" or a "suggestive question" which means the responses are now going to be biased (whether for or against) based on how you framed the question by first discussing your stereotype about the appeal of Agnosticism.

Regardless, the appeal of Agnosticism to me was that it was open to thought-experiment but truly undeniable, not baggaged historically, and humbly powerful in its nature. Those are some few things that I can recall off the top of my head.

5. This would be related to the answers to questions 2 and 3. As such, the confessed agnosticism hardly differs from person to person... Although the reach of agnosticism is wide, it's scope really isn't. It merely coat-tails on the large scope of epistemology. Yet, I'd assume some agnostics might be Theist, Atheist, or "pure Agnostics" in terms of theology. And even within, let's say, pure Agnostics: some might believe in "pan-agnosticism" while others might assume (in my opinion, incorrectly) that some superhuman beings might be able to disregard the problem of Solipsism accurately and non-accidentally. Some Agnostics might even assume that some Hard Theists or Hard Atheists might be Gnostic accidentally, while they themselves are still not and have not yet figured out which one really knows for sure the accurate truth.

6. This is a hard question to answer. It also relates to 2, 3, and 5. From my experience agnostics hold pretty much the same attitudes but various beliefs within a narrower scope than as it goes for anti-agnostic beliefs and beliefs in general.

7. It probably has a lot to do with increased exposure to multiple competing anti-agnostic belief systems, increased access to information to weigh the available ideas and labels, and increased time for leisure thinking given various social advances to make life more convenient for doubt and research.

8. It will probably mean that religion will have to evolve for the times or lash out to bring everything down back to the same as it was in previous times. Their previous method of hush-hush "behind-their-back with no opportunity for self-defense" slander but we are "still better than them so we won't debate them directly" (as is common for such cloistered groups) has not worked for them now given the current environment.
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Old Yesterday, 12:27 AM
 
4 posts, read 287 times
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Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
What sort of research paper? For high school? For undergraduate college?

Hopefully, you are going to cite your sources, right? And the good ones you rely on are going to be scholarly sores in the primary-resource persuasion. Or are you just collecting data? How is your supervisor/grader going to believe that you actually collected the data instead of making it up?

1. Every sentient being capable of good thought (which would always include doubt) would understand that anything and its negation can always be doubted, and would thus be a confessing agnostic.

2. The agnosticism of confessing agnostics is simply about epistemology (whether religious or otherwise)- it is not really about any specific personal values, interests, hobbies, and beliefs. As such, they can technically differ greatly. However, it seems that often times people come to ideas based on their connections and exposures, so you will find that most agnostics value higher education, are interested in intellectual pursuits, have mostly scientific beliefs, etc.

3. The significance of agnosticism and epistemology to confessing or self-labeled agnostics largely follows the same conceptualization and pattern as the person focuses listed in your second question.

4. What you have done here is a "leading question" or a "suggestive question" which means the responses are now going to be biased (whether for or against) based on how you framed the question by first discussing your stereotype about the appeal of Agnosticism.

Regardless, the appeal of Agnosticism to me was that it was open to thought-experiment but truly undeniable, not baggaged historically, and humbly powerful in its nature. Those are some few things that I can recall off the top of my head.

5. This would be related to the answers to questions 2 and 3. As such, the confessed agnosticism hardly differs from person to person... Although the reach of agnosticism is wide, it's scope really isn't. It merely coat-tails on the large scope of epistemology. Yet, I'd assume some agnostics might be Theist, Atheist, or "pure Agnostics" in terms of theology. And even within, let's say, pure Agnostics: some might believe in "pan-agnosticism" while others might assume (in my opinion, incorrectly) that some superhuman beings might be able to disregard the problem of Solipsism accurately and non-accidentally. Some Agnostics might even assume that some Hard Theists or Hard Atheists might be Gnostic accidentally, while they themselves are still not and have not yet figured out which one really knows for sure the accurate truth.

6. This is a hard question to answer. It also relates to 2, 3, and 5. From my experience agnostics hold pretty much the same attitudes but various beliefs within a narrower scope than as it goes for anti-agnostic beliefs and beliefs in general.

7. It probably has a lot to do with increased exposure to multiple competing anti-agnostic belief systems, increased access to information to weigh the available ideas and labels, and increased time for leisure thinking given various social advances to make life more convenient for doubt and research.

8. It will probably mean that religion will have to evolve for the times or lash out to bring everything down back to the same as it was in previous times. Their previous method of hush-hush "behind-their-back with no opportunity for self-defense" slander but we are "still better than them so we won't debate them directly" (as is common for such cloistered groups) has not worked for them now given the current environment.
It is a research paper for an undergraduate college, which has an annotated bibliography of all my sources which are scholarly articles from the school library. I am a new Agnostic myself, and I am trying out a discussion forum for the first time, so this was a rough post. Your feedback was very helpful and exactly parallel to my research and the content of my paper. I'm working on questions to ask that will help contribute to the conversation of Agnosticism. If you have any questions you would like to input or see answered that would be great. Also is there anything you would hope I talk about(As I have grasped the ideas you have mentioned above.)?
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Old Yesterday, 01:38 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,849 posts, read 4,641,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user1999 View Post
It is a research paper for an undergraduate college, which has an annotated bibliography of all my sources which are scholarly articles from the school library. I am a new Agnostic myself, and I am trying out a discussion forum for the first time, so this was a rough post. Your feedback was very helpful and exactly parallel to my research and the content of my paper. I'm working on questions to ask that will help contribute to the conversation of Agnosticism. If you have any questions you would like to input or see answered that would be great. Also is there anything you would hope I talk about(As I have grasped the ideas you have mentioned above.)?
It is for a literature course, a philosophy course, a history course, or otherwise?

Perhaps the history of agnosticism would add an aged aroma, did it start when the term was coined by Aldus Huxley?

Did it start when Voltaire had extensive thought-experiments and reasoning laid out in his literature?

Did it start when Socrates said that he was puzzled when the Oracle/Prophet of the Olympian Gods through Apollo the Redemer said that in her supernatural inspiration Socrates was the wisest person in all the land although [or because of] admitting that he [greatly] lacked knowledge and wisdom?

"all I know is that I know nothing"
"the only true wisdom is to know that you know nothing"

Socrates Or Protagoras? Or was it Pyrrho, or was it Epicurious who said it best?

Yes, agnosticism is a part of ancient scriptural Hinduism (even if hinted at acceptingly or attentively argued against), as evident from the Nasadiya Sukta (hymn of creation "against nothingness") in the tenth chapter (circa 1000 BC in oral institution of Brahmins) of the Rigveda ("glorious knowledge").

Quote:
Rigveda 10:129

....

6. But, after all, who knows, and who can say
Whence it all came, and how creation happened?
the gods/angels/avatars themselves are later than creation,
so who knows truly whence it has arisen?

7. Whence all creation had its origin,
the Creator, whether He fashioned it or whether He did not,
the Creator, who surveys it all from highest heaven,
He knows — or maybe even He does not know.
But did it actually start with Sanjaya Belatthaputta in c. 500 BCE?

Have agnostic movements died and resurrected, as the Jains suppose is true of all true concepts since the truth is more monolithic than lies and must always be accepted periodically but lies are too plentiful to remain the same during their reiterations.



In terms of modern developments.

Was the strongest force for the increase in acceptance and non-denial of agnosticism that atheists began to ardently push to represent themselves as their non-religious and anti-religious label?

If agnosticism is mainly the Theistic Agnosticism idea that the existence of God (the Christian one) cannot be proven, then perhaps atheists did make a lot of monotheists realize and accept their agnosticism in that question.

Last edited by LuminousTruth; Yesterday at 02:03 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 02:00 AM
 
3,938 posts, read 2,507,024 times
Reputation: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by user1999 View Post
Hi there! I'm looking for a few people who identify as Agnostic to answer some questions and give me some input for my research paper about Agnosticism. It's basically about understanding Agnosticism as a philosophy, correcting the juxtaposition around the belief, and analyzing the relevancy of the future for Agnosticism as it rises in popularity in younger generations.

Some questions I have that you may build off of:

Who is an Agnostic? What are their values, interests, hobbies, and beliefs. How much significance does it hold in your life?

I wonder if the appeal to Agnosticism is that you may decide what it means to you? Why were you appealed?

How much does Agnosticism differ from person to person?

Do majority of Agnostics hold the same belief or different beliefs?

Why do you think the increase is so rapid and recent?

What do you think the increase in Agnosticism means for the future of religion?
Agnostic simply means that one doesn't know whether or not any Gods exist. Some people would like to take it to step further and say that agnostics believe God is unknowable but that is not universal. Agnosticism differs from person to person because some agnostics are more invested than others. Some agnostics are curious and others are just fine with whatever.
If something is not applicable to one's daily life it usually falls by the wayside, religion is no different.
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Old Yesterday, 11:47 AM
 
4 posts, read 287 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
It is for a literature course, a philosophy course, a history course, or otherwise?

Perhaps the history of agnosticism would add an aged aroma, did it start when the term was coined by Aldus Huxley?

Did it start when Voltaire had extensive thought-experiments and reasoning laid out in his literature?

Did it start when Socrates said that he was puzzled when the Oracle/Prophet of the Olympian Gods through Apollo the Redemer said that in her supernatural inspiration Socrates was the wisest person in all the land although [or because of] admitting that he [greatly] lacked knowledge and wisdom?

"all I know is that I know nothing"
"the only true wisdom is to know that you know nothing"

Socrates Or Protagoras? Or was it Pyrrho, or was it Epicurious who said it best?

Yes, agnosticism is a part of ancient scriptural Hinduism (even if hinted at acceptingly or attentively argued against), as evident from the Nasadiya Sukta (hymn of creation "against nothingness") in the tenth chapter (circa 1000 BC in oral institution of Brahmins) of the Rigveda ("glorious knowledge").



But did it actually start with Sanjaya Belatthaputta in c. 500 BCE?

Have agnostic movements died and resurrected, as the Jains suppose is true of all true concepts since the truth is more monolithic than lies and must always be accepted periodically but lies are too plentiful to remain the same during their reiterations.



In terms of modern developments.

Was the strongest force for the increase in acceptance and non-denial of agnosticism that atheists began to ardently push to represent themselves as their non-religious and anti-religious label?

If agnosticism is mainly the Theistic Agnosticism idea that the existence of God (the Christian one) cannot be proven, then perhaps atheists did make a lot of monotheists realize and accept their agnosticism in that question.


This is for a Writing and Rhetoric II Honors class. It is merely a research paper of my interest and I get to decide where I would like to see it go. I do want to cover history, yes, because one of my goals is to accurately break down Agnosticism and how it differs from person to person. I am personally interested in the future of the belief and learning more about how it ties together with spirituality, if at all. Basically I want to hear what people feel like needs to be said.
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Old Yesterday, 12:56 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,849 posts, read 4,641,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user1999 View Post
This is for a Writing and Rhetoric II Honors class. It is merely a research paper of my interest and I get to decide where I would like to see it go. I do want to cover history, yes, because one of my goals is to accurately break down Agnosticism and how it differs from person to person. I am personally interested in the future of the belief and learning more about how it ties together with spirituality, if at all. Basically I want to hear what people feel like needs to be said.
I'm sure you have a maximum limit on how much you can write. And as it is a "Personal Literature" course, you will have to focus on good grammar, syntax, structure, etc. which would lead to good rhetoric (eloquence, persuasiveness, impressiveness, and/or effectiveness**). But this is likely obvious if you've had good courses and teachers before.

I think the greatest historical spice would come from some good scholarly sources agreeing with the stuff about Socrates and also the last part of that Hindu Vedic hymn (with consideration of its context).

If you have space, you could even venture into how Judaism, Christianity, and Islam attempt to use and abuse agnosticism in their very scriptures (although without using the label) in order to achieve their goals.

"Who knows! except for God above! So believe us, since you don't know!" I've heard this sort of line in Islam especially. But I'm sure that modern Judaism pays a lot of homage to this wise frame of thought when it is seen as convenient, and I am directly aware that Christianity (especially fundamentalist veins) uses this agnostic quality in humans as a diatribe against (and a fear-mongering of) secular/average humans and human life (especially as it was in the context of arguing against the Syncretic-Polytheist pagans).

Spoiler
**a piece of writing with the goal to anger the audience for lack of eloquence, persuasiveness, or impressiveness would still be "effective" in its goal; but I am pretty sure that is not where you want to go with your research paper for your Rhetoric course.


I hope you have found good ways to employ alliterations, figures of speech, and other compositional techniques, especially ones you have been taught about previously in your college's literature department.

I've even heard that some psychology studies have found that people are willing to believe a piece of writing more if it simply rhymes or is rhythmical in nature rather than if it is straight-forward prose. But as yours is a research paper, it will mostly have to be prose. However, there is nothing stopping prose from being engaging, memorable, and sparingly using good psychologically convincing compositional techniques.

Last edited by LuminousTruth; Yesterday at 01:10 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 03:04 PM
 
37,995 posts, read 10,339,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user1999 View Post
Hi there! I'm looking for a few people who identify as Agnostic to answer some questions and give me some input for my research paper about Agnosticism. It's basically about understanding Agnosticism as a philosophy, correcting the juxtaposition around the belief, and analyzing the relevancy of the future for Agnosticism as it rises in popularity in younger generations.

Some questions I have that you may build off of:

Who is an Agnostic? What are their values, interests, hobbies, and beliefs. How much significance does it hold in your life?

I wonder if the appeal to Agnosticism is that you may decide what it means to you? Why were you appealed?

How much does Agnosticism differ from person to person?

Do majority of Agnostics hold the same belief or different beliefs?

Why do you think the increase is so rapid and recent?

What do you think the increase in Agnosticism means for the future of religion?
Did you perhaps have the 'Nones' in mind? Agnostics are perhaps a different kind of critter - they tend to be god (even God...aka Biblegod,,,and as often as not including a bit of Jesus and Bible - as a Good Book with some great advice in, if not a divinely originated tome) - believers who admit the possibility that there may not be a god, after all. That's what you imply with: "How much does Agnosticism differ from person to person? " Agnosticism (not knowing whether there is a god or not) is of course all the same, so you are probably looking for varying degrees of doubt and belief, and a different impact of theism (or not) in their lives.

The 'Nones' are a bit different because (aside from form some card -carrying atheists) they may be 'maybe a god, maybe not, but I sorta -believe it' types and some real believers, but who don't have any truck with organised religion, which they see as a man -made invention.

So Agnostic (aside that we all are agnostics - Theists and Atheists alike, as nobody knows for sure) tends to be a god -doubter, but a believer, and a None would be more of a believer but not a member of a Religion.

Hope that clarifies things a bit. P.s it occurred to me that, as a 'new' agnostic, you might use yourself as a yardstick for measuring how other 'agnostics' fit on a 'doubting Thomas/no -religion' -scale.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; Yesterday at 03:13 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 03:26 PM
 
12,576 posts, read 4,754,719 times
Reputation: 1312
Quote:
Originally Posted by user1999 View Post
Hi there! I'm looking for a few people who identify as Agnostic to answer some questions and give me some input for my research paper about Agnosticism. It's basically about understanding Agnosticism as a philosophy, correcting the juxtaposition around the belief, and analyzing the relevancy of the future for Agnosticism as it rises in popularity in younger generations.

Some questions I have that you may build off of:

Who is an Agnostic? What are their values, interests, hobbies, and beliefs. How much significance does it hold in your life?

I wonder if the appeal to Agnosticism is that you may decide what it means to you? Why were you appealed?

How much does Agnosticism differ from person to person?

Do majority of Agnostics hold the same belief or different beliefs?

Why do you think the increase is so rapid and recent?

What do you think the increase in Agnosticism means for the future of religion?
for some of us its as simple as "a guy dying and rising for our sins?" No way.

Are we part f a larger more complex set of interactions? yes, we are.

be careful here. some of us are not in the game for honest reasons. atheism doesn't have sects but we differ enough that the notion applies.
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Old Yesterday, 03:30 PM
 
12,576 posts, read 4,754,719 times
Reputation: 1312
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Did you perhaps have the 'Nones' in mind? Agnostics are perhaps a different kind of critter - they tend to be god (even God...aka Biblegod,,,and as often as not including a bit of Jesus and Bible - as a Good Book with some great advice in, if not a divinely originated tome) - believers who admit the possibility that there may not be a god, after all. That's what you imply with: "How much does Agnosticism differ from person to person? " Agnosticism (not knowing whether there is a god or not) is of course all the same, so you are probably looking for varying degrees of doubt and belief, and a different impact of theism (or not) in their lives.

The 'Nones' are a bit different because (aside from form some card -carrying atheists) they may be 'maybe a god, maybe not, but I sorta -believe it' types and some real believers, but who don't have any truck with organised religion, which they see as a man -made invention.

So Agnostic (aside that we all are agnostics - Theists and Atheists alike, as nobody knows for sure) tends to be a god -doubter, but a believer, and a None would be more of a believer but not a member of a Religion.

Hope that clarifies things a bit. P.s it occurred to me that, as a 'new' agnostic, you might use yourself as a yardstick for measuring how other 'agnostics' fit on a 'doubting Thomas/no -religion' -scale.
yeah, this clarifies it. you make up what you need to make it sound like your sect of atheism has rights to decide what we have to believe.

Trans define his "nones" on a god definition of his choosing. Or if he feels an atheist description is something theist can us, even though its not god, he'll determine it makes atheism harder to sell and will reject it.

just be careful. are you anti-religious, don't care, or strong theist?
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