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Old 06-12-2019, 02:12 PM
 
38,753 posts, read 10,667,394 times
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No, I'm not going to go down the slippery -slope line from Wyatt's exhibition weeping on TV to a certain famous golfer and the problem of why people expect men to keep their codpiece buttoned... it's contentious and off topic.

Nor did I intend to go down the line of study of theist debate tactics, the bland dishonesty and the Godfaith that makes evidence, logical soundness and even intellectual honesty irrelevant, even though it leads to the God in the head, personal cred. being even more important that religious credibility, 'commonsense -laybod' thinking - and the recent discovery of Selective memory, nor the equally

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOoJK_fY7nE

matters of 'projection' and why we do it, appeal to Authority and why the theist side do it so much and the tactics...trying to start a fight, us and Them, and the good old 'Flounce', because the key to debating the Theists is understanding the theist.

i Won't even get into the byways of using claims they know we can't check as 'evidence'.

'you are wrong because you are so rude'.

'Where was i rude?'

'some posts ago..'

'which ones?'

'well other atheists are rude.'

'Where? Which ones'.

'Well, atheists in general are just Rude'.

I've seen it. We saw on the (closed) Zozimus thread how each of us putting in our pennyworth of refutation (I concede that some were a bit dismissive and Hoppity (2) that a Certain Regular couldn't wait to play the hostile Bias card.

There's so much - the dismissal of science as mere human opinion, as likely to be right as wrong "I'm pretty sure you've not been to the Moon, so you can't be sure it's not green cheese" (1). The 'sliver of truth'; ploy (Stalin was an atheist, Einstein believed in God), and the cut and paste without checking whether its been long since refuted, never mid whether it's actually true or not. It simply doesn't matter, because evidence only is a means to an end.

An early Arq. Sig. was 'the truth is important'. And to the rationalist (skepticism is a subset of that and atheism is a subset of rationality, babyburgers are a subset of that, and evolution -theory is nothing to do with it) intellectual integrity is not only a good thing, it is the only point there is. But Theist apologetics isn't like that. the Truth is known On Faith (3). Thus any 'evidence', good bad or damned lies is Fine - so long as it 'proves' what is known to be true On faith.

Oh...so much. Old Eusebius (if he is here as Omega, he isn't as brilliantly dishonest as he used to be)..there was nobody like him for evasion. (requirements that he back up assertions were met with "I'm not here to educate you"). And note - this is part of the 'Go and find my evidence fore me' tactic that required Us to say 'If you have a point, make it. Don't send us off to trawl a website or read a book'. That's a common ploy. It is probably instinctive; probably just poor thinking, but it's a tricky tactic in the end.

And 'anecdotal evidence' is a three volume work in itself. I'll even try to resist the temptation to post on the endgame tactic..'the Parthian shot/ Last word that enable the Theist to Flounce off pretending that he won, and the possibly alternative, possibly related apologetics of the third -kind - cheeky denial. "Nope you didn't may any points, nope, i wasn't wrong, no you didn't prove anything' With the requisite Black Knight clip. resulting in the dictum that the debate is for the peanut gallery - not with any hope of convincing the opponent, who isn't even listening.

(1) yep, here it is again - another atheist parable. classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaFZQBb2srM

(2) there's thread (if not a Sticky) to be Opened on how the methods, demeanour and tactics of Some atheist posters could be improved a bit. Give a good example, lads. The Ladesses are perfect of course, and even Mystic bathed in a Shinina shellackking like a televangelist bathing in dollar- bills.

(3) 'The words of this wizard stand on their heads' (Gimli). Meanings are inverted. Truth is what ever supports the faith, even if not true. 'Lies' are anything that undermines the faith, even if true. 'What is Truth', has always been a good question and I noteced even as a kid that Pilate never got an answer.

I can give it to him now - 'Truth' is faith, and thatever supports it is 'of the truth', even if untrue. It follows that 'Lies' are anything that undermines it and it does no harm at all to add the claim that satan is whispering all this false information...well, you know what i mean ...and the proof is the circular argument that satan is the father of lies because lies is anything that is said against the faith, and that must come from the devil.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-12-2019 at 03:17 PM..
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:36 PM
 
13,061 posts, read 4,898,419 times
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what we saw in zo post was actually starting to shed light on the situation. we have two hard core claims. One being deny all and any god and the other my-god only. when we start unpacking what we are actually doing and trying to determine a relative validity scale, we see clearly that deny everything is as unscientific as my-god only.

the fuzzy dice was a great example.

we are at a point that its clear we are connected to a larger more complex system. There is a lot of information being exchanged in patterns. The patter are so clear that we can set formulas to them.

To deny those patters because some sect of atheism are anti-god is falling into the Fundy think trap that we need to be describing realty based on a statement of belief about god instead of letting reality determining our statement of belief.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:26 PM
 
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The Psalms are all the proof anyone would need:

"I rejoice in following your statutes as one rejoices in great riches." (Ps 119:14)
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:18 PM
 
38,753 posts, read 10,667,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The Psalms are all the proof anyone would need:

"I rejoice in following your statutes as one rejoices in great riches." (Ps 119:14)
Rather like LoR's sniping at unbelief fits better when applied to his religion (1), this piece of Fiction makes more sense when applied to the verified 'statutes' of science than to the unverified and not uncommonly debunked 'statutes' of religion and the Bible.

"You don't care whether your beliefs are true or not, you just like 'em.' (Matt Dillahunty)


(1) despite his denial, he couldn't help make it a metaphor of the battle between (his) religion and those on the Other side.
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:18 AM
 
13,061 posts, read 4,898,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The Psalms are all the proof anyone would need:

"I rejoice in following your statutes as one rejoices in great riches." (Ps 119:14)
I think I see that.

the anti-religious/god sect of atheism bases their conclusions about the system we are in on a statement of belief about god. here anti-religious/god statutes.

the My-religion/god-only sect bases their conclusions about the system we are in on a statement of belief about god. here My-religion/god-only riches.

the word "rejoice" is where people may be differ. there is to need to "rejoice" for everybody. Thats more of an emotion.

I like the black hole somebody brought up.

If people were doing harm in the name of black holes does that mean denying that they are there is more valid than saying they are there?
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Old 06-13-2019, 04:49 AM
 
3,545 posts, read 1,109,146 times
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You’re a trip
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Old 06-13-2019, 04:50 AM
 
10,413 posts, read 12,671,808 times
Reputation: 3794
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Rather like LoR's sniping at unbelief fits better when applied to his religion (1), this piece of Fiction makes more sense when applied to the verified 'statutes' of science than to the unverified and not uncommonly debunked 'statutes' of religion and the Bible.

"You don't care whether your beliefs are true or not, you just like 'em.' (Matt Dillahunty)


(1) despite his denial, he couldn't help make it a metaphor of the battle between (his) religion and those on the Other side.
IF you are wrong, it would be difficult to admit to anyone when you are wrong. Especially when you have taken such a strong stand on one side.

Wouldn't it?

But I'm sure that has absolutely nothing to do with your firm stance. No matter how ridiculously extreme it is.
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:38 PM
 
38,753 posts, read 10,667,394 times
Reputation: 5067
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
IF you are wrong, it would be difficult to admit to anyone when you are wrong. Especially when you have taken such a strong stand on one side.

Wouldn't it?

But I'm sure that has absolutely nothing to do with your firm stance. No matter how ridiculously extreme it is.
If i am wrong (or need to be corrected as in the matter of the Septuagint perhaps being a better translation than I thought) I will admit it. It is Your side that will never admit being wrong, despite the evidence, and i am sure that it has to do with a faith -based conviction that God is telling you the truth. I think that explains a lot about the stubborn denial, the 'Lapses of memory', and the vanishment (if they cannot engineer a 'Draw' ) and popping up later on with the same (debunked) arguments, and why we have to do it over and over and over again.

I didn't even touch on 'projection' - any accusation directed at us won't be too far out if it is applied to your side.
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:25 PM
 
13,061 posts, read 4,898,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15 View Post
You’re a trip
you will have tell me where I am wrong so we can compare your claim to mine.
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:54 PM
 
3,545 posts, read 1,109,146 times
Reputation: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15 View Post
You’re a trip
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
you will have tell me where I am wrong so we can compare your claim to mine.
"tell me where I am wrong"

Where in the three words I typed did I say you were wrong, Aino?
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