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Old 05-28-2019, 08:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
I think I finally understand what you're getting at. If God is not the ultimate, Heís not really God. Weíd have to continue back to the initial source, no?

we can't get back to the original source because we do not have enough information. We are here now and in is this universe.

so why base any trait of your god on an unknown?

as far as human(s) are concerned the universe is our everything. It is our ultimate and we do not know where it came from. It may very well be a forever kind of thing. But it also possible that it came from something else.

You needing it to be something other than it is, is what I am questioning. why, do you need something to be more than the best it can be? or at least trying?

answer this question directly please ...

are you less human because you came from a non human thing?
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Old 05-28-2019, 12:41 PM
Status: "Roaming around your head-nothing here to see." (set 12 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,366 posts, read 8,908,143 times
Reputation: 1660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
we can't get back to the original source because we do not have enough information. We are here now and in is this universe.

so why base any trait of your god on an unknown?

as far as human(s) are concerned the universe is our everything. It is our ultimate and we do not know where it came from. It may very well be a forever kind of thing. But it also possible that it came from something else.

You needing it to be something other than it is, is what I am questioning. why, do you need something to be more than the best it can be? or at least trying?

answer this question directly please ...

are you less human because you came from a non human thing?
What other possibilities are there for the origin of our universe, other than a creator (of some sort)? I think it is only logical that there is something behind the universe. Iíve stated why the Christian God makes sense to me. Something being unknown does not prohibit us from making an educated guess.

Iíve answered your question. God is not the ultimate if some higher being created Him. *I really donít understand the bolded.
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Old 05-28-2019, 01:49 PM
 
13,493 posts, read 5,006,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
What other possibilities are there for the origin of our universe, other than a creator (of some sort)? I think it is only logical that there is something behind the universe. Iíve stated why the Christian God makes sense to me. Something being unknown does not prohibit us from making an educated guess.

Iíve answered your question. God is not the ultimate if some higher being created Him. *I really donít understand the bolded.
you didn't answer me. you told me I am confused about creator and created. then you told me about your god. "we don't know how the universe started so god did it." just isn't the best we can do.

the bold part is in reference to you stating "if it isn't like I say it is, its not god." all i said was, why can't god be what god is and not what you have to have it be?

I asked you ... are you less human because you were made from other life forms? if you like, are you less human because your god made you? basically, your god is something else.

are you less human because something else made you?
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Old 05-28-2019, 02:27 PM
Status: "Roaming around your head-nothing here to see." (set 12 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,366 posts, read 8,908,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
you didn't answer me. you told me I am confused about creator and created. then you told me about your god. "we don't know how the universe started so god did it." just isn't the best we can do.

the bold part is in reference to you stating "if it isn't like I say it is, its not god." all i said was, why can't god be what god is and not what you have to have it be?

I asked you ... are you less human because you were made from other life forms? if you like, are you less human because your god made you? basically, your god is something else.

are you less human because something else made you?
In my defense, you donít have an answer to why/how the universe started. Not sure why a creator bothers you as a possible answer.

I have no problem with God being who God is. Not sure though how God can be God if thereís a bigger GOD behind it?

Iím sorry, but I donít understand your ďless than humanĒ point. God is a higher being and He created humanity. Makes sense to me.
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Old 05-28-2019, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
In my defense, you donít have an answer to why/how the universe started. Not sure why a creator bothers you as a possible answer.

....
As for me, a creator doesn't bother me as a possible answer.
But can you admit it may not be the answer?
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Old 05-28-2019, 02:51 PM
 
13,493 posts, read 5,006,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
In my defense, you don’t have an answer to why/how the universe started. Not sure why a creator bothers you as a possible answer.

I have no problem with God being who God is. Not sure though how God can be God if there’s a bigger GOD behind it?

I’m sorry, but I don’t understand your “less than human” point. God is a higher being and He created humanity. Makes sense to me.
not a problem ... let me answer. we don't know how the universe started. I have no problem with a creator when we find out what it was. but right now we don't know. and remember, the start of this conversation is about using what we do know, not what we don't know, to form a belief. a creator is not known, so why use it?

my question is

are you anything but human even though something else made you? I used the word "lesser" as an example. Are you less human because something else made you?

am I less human when my kid found out i didn't know everything. am I lessor or was my kid wrong?
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Old 05-28-2019, 03:37 PM
Status: "Roaming around your head-nothing here to see." (set 12 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,366 posts, read 8,908,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
As for me, a creator doesn't bother me as a possible answer.
But can you admit it may not be the answer?
Yes, but Iím confident in my beliefs. I see the Christian model played out in our lives.
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Old 05-28-2019, 03:40 PM
Status: "Roaming around your head-nothing here to see." (set 12 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,366 posts, read 8,908,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
not a problem ... let me answer. we don't know how the universe started. I have no problem with a creator when we find out what it was. but right now we don't know. and remember, the start of this conversation is about using what we do know, not what we don't know, to form a belief. a creator is not known, so why use it?

my question is

are you anything but human even though something else made you? I used the word "lesser" as an example. Are you less human because something else made you?

am I less human when my kid found out i didn't know everything. am I lessor or was my kid wrong?
My beliefs are based on what I see.

No, Iím not less human because God made humanity. Whatís your point? That God is not less than God if He had a creator? If so, I disagree, as I stated several times.
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Old 05-28-2019, 03:49 PM
 
13,493 posts, read 5,006,426 times
Reputation: 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
My beliefs are based on what I see.

No, Iím not less human because God made humanity. Whatís your point? That God is not less than God if He had a creator? If so, I disagree, as I stated several times.
that ends it then.

there is absolutely no proof of a creator so it is not needed in discussing what god is or is not. It basically adds nothing.

so for now, the best we have is that we don't know how the universe started. But that it, and your god, are here now and may have come from something before it.

there is no reason that this god didn't have to have a beginning. after all, its the beginning and the end, so it even said it. Just like you are the beginning and the end for the cells in your body.
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:07 PM
Status: "Roaming around your head-nothing here to see." (set 12 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,366 posts, read 8,908,143 times
Reputation: 1660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
that ends it then.

there is absolutely no proof of a creator so it is not needed in discussing what god is or is not. It basically adds nothing.

so for now, the best we have is that we don't know how the universe started. But that it, and your god, are here now and may have come from something before it.

there is no reason that this god didn't have to have a beginning. after all, its the beginning and the end, so it even said it. Just like you are the beginning and the end for the cells in your body.
I’m baffled by your belief there is no evidence of a creator. I find that illogical.

Last edited by jimmiej; 05-28-2019 at 04:17 PM..
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