U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-28-2019, 09:01 PM
 
10,407 posts, read 12,669,746 times
Reputation: 3794

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
I'll take Yoda any day over any preacher or priest I ever heard. Why did Luke seek Yoda? He wanted to learn how to control the force. In Christianity, you don't control god. In fact, you are a servant of God. Who was Luke a servant to?


What did Yoda see inside of Luke that troubled him? Fear. That is an emotion that we can agree most humans experience. Maladaptive behavior can be zeroed in on an emotion that most of us can relate to such as fear. We can adapt to it so that we can grow from it. What does Christianity see inside of humans that troubles it? Sin. This is not even an emotion and we have to be saved from it.
"Sin" is often equated with Pride.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-29-2019, 03:06 AM
 
38,733 posts, read 10,662,185 times
Reputation: 5064
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
"Sin" is often equated with Pride.
Yes. That's a good way of manipulating people. if they Think, ask questions, doubt rather than just Accept, they are lacking humility, they have Pride. it's a Sin. They will be Punished.

Doesn't that make you sick, Ozzy? It makes me sick.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-29-2019, 04:18 AM
 
2,928 posts, read 1,527,309 times
Reputation: 3104
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
"Sin" is often equated with Pride.
Pride is an emotion which can result in adaptive or maladaptive behavior. Sin is the result of an emotion and, according to Christians, it is all maladaptive behavior.

There are two opportunities for learning and growing that can happen with my 'model' (which isn't really mine; I learned it from my daughter's school). One is self regulation and the other is interaction with others. Self regulation is recognizing our emotion, which we really can't control. Self regulation is also recognizing if we have adapted to it or made things worse. Transponder mentioned questioning being treated as prideful. I don't agree. Questioning is a behavior, pride is an emotion. There are other things we can do when we feel pride. What we have to decide is whether or not our line of questioning is getting us what we want. We actually don't have to be perfect the first time or the second time, but eventually we need to self-reflect.

The other opportunity for growing is interaction with others, which is dependent on perception. This is where we decide 'should I or shouldn't I', based on the feelings of others. For example, we may ask ourselves "Are we breaking the rules of other people, especially social rules? What are those rules?" Finding out other people's rules has been one of the more interesting activities I have undertaken, only because they rarely think about them and when they do, are often specific to an event and a person. In other words, their rules are rarely applied equally across situations and people. That is a lack of social justice.

There is a reason Christianity is changing. What they have been doing all along to convert people, to force people to be sinless, or to make people accept that their everyday activities are full of sin, has been hurting their cause more than helping it. Christianity treats sin like it is something out of our control, like our emotions. It is not. It is a behavior. Also, aggressive Christians have confused self-regulation with interaction with others. They create expectations for others to follow based on their feelings, rather than consider if their behavior is breaking somebody else's rules. Of course, this is not specific only to Christians.

Last edited by elyn02; 05-29-2019 at 05:03 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-29-2019, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,066 posts, read 10,271,083 times
Reputation: 20103
One of the things I like about the philosophy of Buddhism is that things are not up to some mysterious god. It is up to us to, as you put it, Elyn, self-regulate and strive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-29-2019, 10:58 AM
 
38,733 posts, read 10,662,185 times
Reputation: 5064
Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
Pride is an emotion which can result in adaptive or maladaptive behavior. Sin is the result of an emotion and, according to Christians, it is all maladaptive behavior.

There are two opportunities for learning and growing that can happen with my 'model' (which isn't really mine; I learned it from my daughter's school). One is self regulation and the other is interaction with others. Self regulation is recognizing our emotion, which we really can't control. Self regulation is also recognizing if we have adapted to it or made things worse. Transponder mentioned questioning being treated as prideful. I don't agree. Questioning is a behavior, pride is an emotion. There are other things we can do when we feel pride. What we have to decide is whether or not our line of questioning is getting us what we want. We actually don't have to be perfect the first time or the second time, but eventually we need to self-reflect.

The other opportunity for growing is interaction with others, which is dependent on perception. This is where we decide 'should I or shouldn't I', based on the feelings of others. For example, we may ask ourselves "Are we breaking the rules of other people, especially social rules? What are those rules?" Finding out other people's rules has been one of the more interesting activities I have undertaken, only because they rarely think about them and when they do, are often specific to an event and a person. In other words, their rules are rarely applied equally across situations and people. That is a lack of social justice.

There is a reason Christianity is changing. What they have been doing all along to convert people, to force people to be sinless, or to make people accept that their everyday activities are full of sin, has been hurting their cause more than helping it. Christianity treats sin like it is something out of our control, like our emotions. It is not. It is a behavior. Also, aggressive Christians have confused self-regulation with interaction with others. They create expectations for others to follow based on their feelings, rather than consider if their behavior is breaking somebody else's rules. Of course, this is not specific only to Christians.
Damn, you put me on the spot. Questioning and doubt is not Pride, much less a sin, as you say, but was i right in saying that church dogma thinks it is? I think it is. I think the (at base) any questioning and doubt is the Real Sin and rather than say it's Wrong (could be tricky to say that asking questions is wrong (1) say it's the Sin of Pride. of course the answer is look at a few apologetics websites....

Hmmm. Well, it gets complicated (both with Catholics and protestants) because they evade the actual question. Rather they take the human aspects of pride (saying nothing about the positive aspects as explained in Wiki) and setting out a lot of negative results (putting 'a lying tongue' down to pride rather than the owner saying what the Churches don't want to hear through asking honest questions) in terms of human morality and saying it's 'hateful to God'. we don't even get near the question of Pride through doubt, other that 'setting ones'self against God'.

Anyway. that's off topic a bit because social justice is a positive step in bringing the church into line with the latest moves in human ethics and thee church either having to catch up or lose votes.

(1) except of course questions within accepted limits that will serve the faith rather than question it.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-29-2019 at 11:12 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-29-2019, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,704 posts, read 6,122,964 times
Reputation: 5971
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Yes. That's a good way of manipulating people. if they Think, ask questions, doubt rather than just Accept, they are lacking humility, they have Pride. it's a Sin. They will be Punished.

Doesn't that make you sick, Ozzy? It makes me sick.
Pride is a 'bs' word. Has a gazillion connotations. "Take pride in your work". "Show some pride". "Don't you have any pride", "too much pride" and on and on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-29-2019, 04:39 PM
 
2,928 posts, read 1,527,309 times
Reputation: 3104
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
One of the things I like about the philosophy of Buddhism is that things are not up to some mysterious god. It is up to us to, as you put it, Elyn, self-regulate and strive.
Well said, Phetaroi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Damn, you put me on the spot. Questioning and doubt is not Pride, much less a sin, as you say, but was i right in saying that church dogma thinks it is? I think it is. I think the (at base) any questioning and doubt is the Real Sin and rather than say it's Wrong (could be tricky to say that asking questions is wrong (1) say it's the Sin of Pride. of course the answer is look at a few apologetics websites....

Hmmm. Well, it gets complicated (both with Catholics and protestants) because they evade the actual question. Rather they take the human aspects of pride (saying nothing about the positive aspects as explained in Wiki) and setting out a lot of negative results (putting 'a lying tongue' down to pride rather than the owner saying what the Churches don't want to hear through asking honest questions) in terms of human morality and saying it's 'hateful to God'. we don't even get near the question of Pride through doubt, other that 'setting ones'self against God'.

Anyway. that's off topic a bit because social justice is a positive step in bringing the church into line with the latest moves in human ethics and thee church either having to catch up or lose votes.

(1) except of course questions within accepted limits that will serve the faith rather than question it.
I am sorry to put you on the spot, Transponder. I knew to expect a fair response from you so I felt okay to disagree.

Actually, the emotion pride is listed under "green" in the system used at my daughter's school. I asked her to check for me and report to me later. "Green" is an ideal color for a person to be at. So having pride is a positive feeling and not a behavior. But I wouldn't push my luck with a Christian.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-29-2019, 07:21 PM
 
10,407 posts, read 12,669,746 times
Reputation: 3794
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Pride is a 'bs' word. Has a gazillion connotations. "Take pride in your work". "Show some pride". "Don't you have any pride", "too much pride" and on and on.
Maybe the English language is limited. But there is a certain kind that is associated with arrogance. Or with entitlement. It's what is behind all crime and bad behavior. That is why it is fairly stated in scripture that if a person is guilty of breaking one of God's laws, then he is guilty of all of them. A person in a state of sin could easily violate all of God's law, thinking that he was entitled to do so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-29-2019, 07:54 PM
 
2,928 posts, read 1,527,309 times
Reputation: 3104
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Maybe the English language is limited. But there is a certain kind that is associated with arrogance. Or with entitlement. It's what is behind all crime and bad behavior. That is why it is fairly stated in scripture that if a person is guilty of breaking one of God's laws, then he is guilty of all of them. A person in a state of sin could easily violate all of God's law, thinking that he was entitled to do so.
So a person with pride, the wrong kind of course, is suddenly a criminal? There are so many arrogant and entitled people walking around and none of them are locked up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-29-2019, 08:23 PM
 
10,407 posts, read 12,669,746 times
Reputation: 3794
Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
So a person with pride, the wrong kind of course, is suddenly a criminal? There are so many arrogant and entitled people walking around and none of them are locked up.
That's because they are "righteous" according to the gospels. That should be taken as tongue in cheek I believe, at times when you see that word in the gospels.

That is why heaven rejoices at 1 repentant sinner more than 99 righteous people. The secret message is that they are all sinners, but just aren't aware of it yet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top