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Old 05-29-2019, 11:22 AM
 
39,112 posts, read 10,849,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
This is complete nonsense. You are completely redefining the word truth.
This isn't at all a topic for me, but Fish is right here.

Truth at base is a fact - what actually is so aside from whatever we believe about it. Saturn had rings even before we knew that it did The Christian will maintain that there is a God, even if nobody believes in or knows about it.

The other 'truth' is of course close how we approach to the facts, and while we can never be 100% sure or even think that we are 100% sure, we can put varying degrees of confidence or probability behind it, and regard many human- held truths as reliably coinciding the faiths that actually exist.

This means that belief or maintaining faith -claims is worthless (except in terms of social influence) and where the weight of evidence lies is all that really counts.

Now I'm off to find anyone who hasn't heard my Gospel -theory and bore their arse off with it.

 
Old 05-29-2019, 05:50 PM
 
40,073 posts, read 26,744,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
This is complete nonsense. You are completely redefining the word truth.
No, just applying it to an unknown that currently demands only subjective truth. It is extreme arrogance to demand that someone's subjective experienced truth comport with YOUR preferred subjective truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
Where did "this God" come from? If there was an "in the beginning," what occurred before "in the beginning?"
Unknown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15 View Post
So god and no thing existed at the same point in time? god just abracadabra’d itself.
First thing god had to invent was “out of space and time” place where It could exist, right?
When did it xerox itself into three?
You seem to ignore the claim that our consciousness has the same creation ex nihilo in our imagination that is claimed for God. My preferred conclusion is that our "measured physical world" (5% of our Reality) is created in the imagination of God. YMMV.
 
Old 05-30-2019, 08:47 AM
 
477 posts, read 95,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahash Mazal View Post
... truth has no foundation in actual fact. Each person has that which is true to them, which may not and likely will not be the truth for any other.
And therein lies the problem. I have no issues viewing your OP as personal theory (ditto for Mystic's subjective personal experience). But unless we define "truth" to mean "whatever each of us dreams up," I would expect truth to be something we could all know and share in common.

Last edited by HeelaMonster; 05-30-2019 at 08:59 AM..
 
Old 05-30-2019, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,980 posts, read 8,410,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
No, just applying it to an unknown that currently demands only subjective truth. It is extreme arrogance to demand that someone's subjective experienced truth comport with YOUR preferred subjective truth.
What you are describing isn’t truth, it is belief.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelaMonster View Post
And therein lies the problem. I have no issues viewing your OP as personal theory (ditto for Mystic's subjective personal experience). But unless we define "truth" to mean "whatever each of us dreams up," I would expect truth to be something we could all know and share in common.
Agreed. Truth should be as objective as possible. One shouldn’t simply throw in the towel and randomly decide that whatever baseless thing one believes is true.
 
Old 05-30-2019, 10:50 AM
 
39,112 posts, read 10,849,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelaMonster View Post
And therein lies the problem. I have no issues viewing your OP as personal theory (ditto for Mystic's subjective personal experience). But unless we define "truth" to mean "whatever each of us dreams up," I would expect truth to be something we could all know and share in common.
Nailed it. It's the kind of thinking that allows us to give evidence it's value while those who want to wave evidence away when it doesn't do what they want and never going to be really rational - on Some matters, at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
What you are describing isn’t truth, it is belief.



Agreed. Truth should be as objective as possible. One shouldn’t simply throw in the towel and randomly decide that whatever baseless thing one believes is true.

You nailed it too. Mystic is always talking Faith -based beliefs and is always trying to dismiss everything we know in order to make it look credible. In other words he is doing just what other Faith -claimants do. The only difference is that his beliefs are better dressed up in sciencey jargon. The others simply dismiss all that and take the bible as their science -book.
 
Old 05-30-2019, 04:06 PM
 
40,073 posts, read 26,744,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
What you are describing isn’t truth, it is belief.
Agreed. Truth should be as objective as possible. One shouldn’t simply throw in the towel and randomly decide that whatever baseless thing one believes is true.
Stop this baseless straw-manning. The existence of God or the origins of our Reality are NOT KNOWN and currently cannot be known. That does not preclude each of us from establishing our own baseline based on our experiences and knowledge. About such issues, each of us determines what we accept as truth.
 
Old 05-30-2019, 05:44 PM
 
13,493 posts, read 4,999,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Stop this baseless straw-manning. The existence of God or the origins of our Reality are NOT KNOWN and currently cannot be known. That does not preclude each of us from establishing our own baseline based on our experiences and knowledge. About such issues, each of us determines what we accept as truth.
fish don't care. when back into a corner he whips out "I don't there, there isn't any god." and runs off.

he has bitten the hook and is deeply committed to saving us heathens with is belief statement about god. A statement of belief that relies heavily on the dogma tic statement of belief (dogmatic because its baseless yet held very deeply) that we need to obscure anything and deny everything else if it is deemed to be useful to the theist, thus making atheism harder to sell.

lmao, they would be cute if they weren't so so dangerous.
 
Old 05-30-2019, 05:52 PM
 
39,112 posts, read 10,849,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Stop this baseless straw-manning. The existence of God or the origins of our Reality are NOT KNOWN and currently cannot be known. That does not preclude each of us from establishing our own baseline based on our experiences and knowledge. About such issues, each of us determines what we accept as truth.

Yes, but what knowledge? Experiences are (like common sense) not always reliable. Knowledge is needed to evaluate them.

"No, just applying it to an unknown that currently demands only subjective truth" That is throwing in the towel in the very real sense. Fish isn't strawmanning. Rather you are, by being evasive. We all know because we have seen it, that you reject 'knowledge' (scientific evidence and logic) except in a back to front version that you concocted to fit with with your subjective beliefs.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-30-2019 at 06:02 PM..
 
Old 05-30-2019, 06:01 PM
 
13,493 posts, read 4,999,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Yes, but what knowledge? Experiences are (like common sense) not always reliable. Knowledge is needed to evaluate them.

"No, just applying it to an unknown that currently demands only subjective truth" That is throwing in the towel in the very real sense. Fish isn't strawmanning. Rather you are, by being evasive. We all know because we have seen it, that you reject 'knowledge' (scientific evidence and logic0 except in a back to front version that you concocted to fit with with your subjective beliefs.
yeah, evauluate the claim that we are surrounded by life is far more valid than we are surrounded by non-life.

and I don't care what your statement of belief about god is, just evaluate the claim. Independent of a statement of belief about god.

oh wait, you can't, your a fundemental obscurest. "deny and shun anything theist can use and make athesm harder to sell.

lmao
 
Old 05-30-2019, 06:22 PM
 
40,073 posts, read 26,744,474 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Yes, but what knowledge? Experiences are (like common sense) not always reliable. Knowledge is needed to evaluate them.

"No, just applying it to an unknown that currently demands only subjective truth" That is throwing in the towel in the very real sense. Fish isn't strawmanning. Rather you are, by being evasive. We all know because we have seen it, that you reject 'knowledge' (scientific evidence and logic) except in a back to front version that you concocted to fit with your subjective beliefs.
The knowledge we have is insufficient to establish what our Reality IS, Arq, despite your arrogant presumption that it is a reductionist materialist milieu. It is only your lack of knowledge of the latest findings that enables you to retain this neanderthal belief. Moderator cut: Complaint about the forum rules removed. The status of our Reality remains UNKNOWN so each of us determines what we accept about it consistent with extant knowledge. Show that God violates any extant knowledge more than your preferred label or that your label has some prior claim and God somehow is an unnecessary addition.

Last edited by mensaguy; 06-05-2019 at 08:50 AM.. Reason: Discussing moderator actions.
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