Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 06-07-2019, 12:37 PM
 
477 posts, read 122,460 times
Reputation: 70

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
let me try this.

do you want to be confrontational or discuss this?
I'm only asking questions so far and when I make a statement, I'm stating the obvious (like unsubstantiated claim should be ignored). None of that can be considered confrontational.

Quote:
what I said is this. we are in a larger more complex system. I said thats what some theist are misrepresenting as god.

do you see how that statement is in between "my-god" and "anti-god?"
Not really, unless you will finally define what you mean by "larger more complex system".
Otherwise, there is no way to asses if that undefined so far "system" even belong in between "my-god" and "anti-god".

Rationally though, the only "system" that can be placed between "my-god" and "anti-god" is some other version of god.

As I explained above, "my-god" and "anti-god" are two extreme position on "god", so the only thing, that can be logically placed in between, is another, less extreme, position on "god" - some god/gods.
Yes, you never directly mentioned some version of god as a definition for your proposed "larger system", but logic does not leave you any choice really, whether you mentioned it or not.

 
Old 06-07-2019, 12:42 PM
 
477 posts, read 122,460 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I'm almost tempted to help you out here, but you seem to be doing fine. and you probably said all you need to, anyway.
Thank you for looking out for me, but I think I see what's going on and pretty much sure I can handle myself
 
Old 06-07-2019, 03:49 PM
 
63,566 posts, read 39,855,129 times
Reputation: 7819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonof View Post
I'm only asking questions so far and when I make a statement, I'm stating the obvious (like unsubstantiated claim should be ignored). None of that can be considered confrontational.
Not really, unless you will finally define what you mean by "larger more complex system".
Otherwise, there is no way to asses if that undefined so far "system" even belong in between "my-god" and "anti-god".
The unknown status of our Reality is the "larger more complex system" that exists whose label rests between those two extreme labels. Neither theists nor atheists actually know WHAT it is or WHY it is, so we disagree over its label and attributes in our as yet unsatisfiable ignorance.
 
Old 06-07-2019, 04:25 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,521,721 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonof View Post
I'm only asking questions so far and when I make a statement, I'm stating the obvious (like unsubstantiated claim should be ignored). None of that can be considered confrontational.



Not really, unless you will finally define what you mean by "larger more complex system".
Otherwise, there is no way to asses if that undefined so far "system" even belong in between "my-god" and "anti-god".

Rationally though, the only "system" that can be placed between "my-god" and "anti-god" is some other version of god.

As I explained above, "my-god" and "anti-god" are two extreme position on "god", so the only thing, that can be logically placed in between, is another, less extreme, position on "god" - some god/gods.
Yes, you never directly mentioned some version of god as a definition for your proposed "larger system", but logic does not leave you any choice really, whether you mentioned it or not.
yeah, whatever. lmao at "logic doesn't leave me any choice", I guess, if you truly do not know what you are talking about, then it doesn't. like a child pooping its pants. it don't know any better so it messes in itself. It sits there all happy and warm.

buts lets stay on the claim.

the system is larger and more complex than us ... which you see as obvious. as do I.

I will describe it (the larger more complex system) as the biosphere for now so that it is empirical. Do you know what empirical means? Just asking.

I say that is what they are misrepresenting as god. so, denying all traits assigned to god that match the larger more complex system, here the biosphere, is in between the two extremes. Its not "nothing", its "something". But it is not some type of god.

now back to some of the christian's claims. they feel connected to a larger life form and they claim we are all connected to it. well, that part of their claim matches observations. I know I won't have to explain that to you because it is obvious. They are just grossly misrepresenting it.
 
Old 06-07-2019, 04:31 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,521,721 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The unknown status of our Reality is the "larger more complex system" that exists whose label rests between those two extreme labels. Neither theists nor atheists actually know WHAT it is or WHY it is, so we disagree over its label and attributes in our as yet unsatisfiable ignorance.
translation:

the traits we assign to the system around us.

and keep in mind mystic how we started, the start of this line was I said some of what the christian' matches observations. Not that they have everything correct.

Also, as you have seen me say many times, having one part right doesn't mean they have everything right.

Only a particular personal disorder need one thing right = all right and/or one thing wrong = all wrong.

these personality disorders also will assign behaviors to a whole group based on a substantially smaller sub set of that group. They basically can't separate the pieces from from the whole.
 
Old 06-08-2019, 07:31 AM
 
477 posts, read 122,460 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The unknown status of our Reality is the "larger more complex system" that exists whose label rests between those two extreme labels. Neither theists nor atheists actually know WHAT it is or WHY it is, so we disagree over its label and attributes in our as yet unsatisfiable ignorance.
There is a confusion here.

The status can not be system. Reality can be system. Status is a state of the system at any given point in time.
If Reality is the system, then its status is well known to the highest degree of certainty. The status is - Reality exists and works predictably.

Please rephrase what you want to say without confusing things. It will help to understand your point.
 
Old 06-08-2019, 07:50 AM
 
477 posts, read 122,460 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
yeah, whatever. lmao at "logic doesn't leave me any choice", I guess, if you truly do not know what you are talking about, then it doesn't. like a child pooping its pants. it don't know any better so it messes in itself. It sits there all happy and warm.
Is not it easier to just show how logic does leave you a choice instead of going into this blah-blah-blah tap dance with all these "whatever", "lmao", etc.?

It looks pretty lame and helpless, just like a child pooping its pants. Are you sitting there all happy and warm?
 
Old 06-08-2019, 11:47 AM
 
63,566 posts, read 39,855,129 times
Reputation: 7819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonof View Post
There is a confusion here.
Based on your posts, it seems to be all your confusion. We are labeling a system that comprises our Reality without knowing what it is or why and we have no way of conclusively deciding which of the labels fits - Mindless interactions or God.
Quote:
The status can not be system. Reality can be system. Status is a state of the system at any given point in time.
If Reality is the system, then its status is well known to the highest degree of certainty. The status is - Reality exists and works predictably.
Nitpicking nonsequitur that has no relevance to the issue in dispute. Less than 5% is hardly the highest degree of certainty. When we decide that the status is God or is NOT God we are labeling the system with different attributes based on knowledge of less than 5% of what comprises it.
 
Old 06-08-2019, 02:22 PM
 
477 posts, read 122,460 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
We are labeling a system that comprises our Reality without knowing what it is or why
Again, system we are part of is not comprises our Reality. It is Reality. Reality is the label we use for this system. And we know about this system a lot.

Quote:
and we have no way of conclusively deciding which of the labels fits - Mindless interactions or God.
Now you are talking about nature (origin) of reality. And you seem to have problem deciding what label would fit this process of origination - Mindless interactions or God.
If you can define for me what you mean by "Mindless interactions" and "God", I will give you my position on this issue.

Quote:
Less than 5% is hardly the highest degree of certainty.
How did you get to this number? Do you have 95% confidence that Reality just got into your brain 5 seconds ago? Or laws of nature work predictably only 5% of the time?

Quote:
When we decide that the status is God or is NOT God we are labeling the system with different attributes based on knowledge of less than 5% of what comprises it.
Again, "God or NOT God" is not a status of the system (Reality).
Those are labels you chose to use for proposed origin of the system (Reality)
Basically, you are posting the question - Is system we are part of (Reality) was originated by God or Not God?

Your contention is that we know too little (less than 5%) to know one way or another.
My contention is that we know enough about ""Not God" and what it does and know nothing at all about God. Thus we need to ignore the "God" hypothesis completely, at least until such time when those proposing it will find the way to prove it.
Until such time, we, as rational actors, should stay away from unnecessary assumptions and continue to operate as if "Not God" is true.

Last edited by Sonof; 06-08-2019 at 02:45 PM..
 
Old 06-08-2019, 03:24 PM
 
63,566 posts, read 39,855,129 times
Reputation: 7819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonof View Post
Again, system we are part of is not comprises our Reality. It is Reality. Reality is the label we use for this system. And we know about this system a lot.
We are approaching banned content but what (if anything) do you know about dark matter or dark energy?
Quote:
Now you are talking about nature (origin) of reality. And you seem to have problem to decide what label would fit this process of origination - Mindless interactions or God.
No, I am not. It has nothing to do with the origin of Reality since we can not KNOW about that. It is about the origins of everything in our 5% of Reality that we can measure directly.
Quote:
If you can define for me what you mean by "Mindless interactions" and "God", I will give you my position on this issue.
Do you consider chemical reactions "mindful?" Do you consider nuclear reactions "mindful?" Do you consider biochemical reactions "mindful?" etc.
Quote:
How did you get to this number? Do you have 95% confidence that Reality just got into your brain 5 seconds ago? Or laws of nature work predictably only 5% of the time?
See dark matter and dark energy.
Quote:
Again, "God or NOT God" is not a status of the system (Reality).
Those are labels you chose to use for the proposed origin of the system (Reality)
Basically, you are posting the question - Is system we are part of (Reality) was originated by God or Not God?
No, I am asking is the Reality that we exist in OUR God since it is responsible for our existence and the existence of everything else we know about?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:10 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top