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Old 05-29-2019, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,280 posts, read 28,085,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
So churches can do some good in their messaging. Bet you dollars to donuts they are not in the south or Baptist.
My sister in law lives in an Atlanta suburb. She attends a Baptist church that is very inclusive. I think at one time they had a minister who is lesbian.
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Old 05-30-2019, 04:29 AM
 
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"People are thirsty to know they are loved." Which shows that embracing is different from tolerance.
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Old 05-30-2019, 04:49 AM
 
38,753 posts, read 10,667,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
"People are thirsty to know they are loved." Which shows that embracing is different from tolerance.
Maybe I'm an old cynic, but that seems to translate as 'There's the market - That's where we can we can sell our product'.
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Old 05-30-2019, 04:55 AM
 
10,414 posts, read 12,671,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Maybe I'm an old cynic, but that seems to translate as 'There's the market - That's where we can we can sell our product'.
Righteous people don't need salvation, obviously. To each his own.

But why would you object to others who would like to have a relationship with their creator.
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Old 05-30-2019, 04:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Maybe I'm an old cynic, but that seems to translate as 'There's the market - That's where we can we can sell our product'.
Haha! And I was going to keep my cynical opinion about tolerance out of this discussion because I know it is viewed in a positive light.
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
55,599 posts, read 54,202,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Maybe I'm an old cynic, but that seems to translate as 'There's the market - That's where we can we can sell our product'.
There's no maybe. You are an old cynic.

But what product do you think they are selling?
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,113 posts, read 10,275,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
"People are thirsty to know they are loved." Which shows that embracing is different from tolerance.
Yes. Years ago -- I don't remember where now -- I heard tolerance defined as "to accept with disdain". That seems to be a good definition of American christianity, or at least large segments of it. They preach love, but when I look at the attitudes toward various aspects of American/Western life, I don't see love. I see that disdain. Many seem obsessed with crime and punishment, almost to the extreme (as exemplified by the death penalty).
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Righteous people don't need salvation, obviously. To each his own.

But why would you object to others who would like to have a relationship with their creator.
Did you actually read his post? Clearly you did not. He talked about those who want to sell their "product", not those who want to have their own relationship with their creator. Two totally different things. I assume that was a Pavlovian response.
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Old 05-30-2019, 10:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Righteous people don't need salvation, obviously. To each his own.

But why would you object to others who would like to have a relationship with their creator.
I don't object to them.

You will want clarification. You are taking my objections to the faith -claims they make and my firm and active opposition to the influence the religion has on society as a person objection to people having such beliefs.

Yes, at base I do think that seeing things as based on the best evidence and logical reasoning is better than just believing whatever you want let alone whatever indoctrination they are subjected to. But it should never be seen as personal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
Haha! And I was going to keep my cynical opinion about tolerance out of this discussion because I know it is viewed in a positive light.
Tolerance or your cynical opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Did you actually read his post? Clearly you did not. He talked about those who want to sell their "product", not those who want to have their own relationship with their creator. Two totally different things. I assume that was a Pavlovian response.
Another one nailed it. Why do the ol' skeptics see the flaws in the reasoning (or excuses, evasions and red herrings, rather) of the believers so easily and even the best brains of the believers can't see the flaws in their own apologetics? The effect of implacable faith on the workings of the human mind is fascinating, truly fascinating.

"I don't care what you say; I still believe.."

It's the instinctive basis of human self - justification. And people think it is admirable. They think it shows courage, integrity and strength of character. Instead it shows arrogance, stubbornness and irrationality. Not admirable traits at all.

I won't even get into the use of projection and personals in this self - justification.

Or the resultant tactics, the one -shot win, the Parthian shot, and that dear ol' classic '"let's agree to differ.." I so want to go on to explain the specious mendacity (probably quite unconscious, or rather Instinctive), of the pretence that a compromise is the best way and atheists insisting that they are right is portrayed as simply arrogance.

"The Sun either rises in east or west - it does not rise in the middle"

But I'm already of -topic on this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6MkESn1v1w

subject of the True believer and their minds. I'm hoping to have a few to dissect one day.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-30-2019 at 11:19 AM..
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Old 05-30-2019, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
55,599 posts, read 54,202,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Yes. Years ago -- I don't remember where now -- I heard tolerance defined as "to accept with disdain". That seems to be a good definition of American christianity, or at least large segments of it. They preach love, but when I look at the attitudes toward various aspects of American/Western life, I don't see love. I see that disdain. Many seem obsessed with crime and punishment, almost to the extreme (as exemplified by the death penalty).
Yes, I remember in a discussion about race, a black woman saying, "I don't want to be TOLERATED."

It is insulting. You might tolerate noise or mosquitoes.
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