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Old 06-09-2019, 11:24 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,356 posts, read 7,016,012 times
Reputation: 4853

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
This seems to boil down to the all-too-common "See, I am special/will get Heaven, and you are not/will get Hell" message sent by fundamentalists.

That's not what it's supposed to be about, sorry.
Salvation is by grace through faith. That's it. It is not by works or merit. What God gives me I could never earn! Praise be to God! Praise be to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! God saves the unworthy, the sinners. People like me. Why? Because of love! Love is the reason God saves the fallen, not because we deserved it.
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Old 06-09-2019, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,454 posts, read 10,395,261 times
Reputation: 20311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
This seems to boil down to the all-too-common "See, I am special/will get Heaven, and you are not/will get Hell" message sent by fundamentalists.

That's not what it's supposed to be about, sorry.
Thank you!
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Old 06-09-2019, 11:33 AM
 
3,638 posts, read 1,133,437 times
Reputation: 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Why do you think Jesus spoke in parables? Parables are difficult to understand, not easy. Parables confuse skeptics while revealing truth to believers. God does command all to repent, believe, and be saved. However, He does decree that the unbeliever will perish.
Here's an interesting one about jesus picking and choosing with parables..

Matthew 13:10-17 International Children’s Bible (ICB)

Why Jesus Used Stories to Teach
10 The followers came to Jesus and asked, “Why do you use stories to teach the people?”


11 Jesus answered, “Only you can know the secret truths about the kingdom of heaven. Other people cannot know these secret truths.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...rsion=NKJV;ICB
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:03 PM
 
11,235 posts, read 11,256,867 times
Reputation: 3445
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
These were my foolish thoughts when I was an atheist--which I was for my entire adult life (I'm 29), until a few months ago. I am familiar with this way of thinking. It's simply and utterly untrue. God has not revealed Himself in such a way that privileges the skeptic. Quite the contrary. It is His sovereign decision how He reveals truth, as no one is owed truth. Why do you think Jesus spoke in parables? Parables are difficult to understand, not easy. Parables confuse skeptics while revealing truth to believers. God does command all to repent, believe, and be saved. However, He does decree that the unbeliever will perish.
Did it every occur to you that God is doing everything az-backwards if what you say is true. He wants us to believe in Him but He doesn't reveal Himself visibly to us. Instead He hides behind trees and clouds and doesn't even yell audibly to us. So we're skeptical because we don't see ANYTHING that indicates God even exists. Yet God reveals Himself to a few weak-minded gullible fools who haven't a shred of evidence that prove He exists, and then turns around and punishes the skeptics for eternity in hellfire because the skeptic is just following the logic God has implanted in him NOT to believe in what he cannot see or hear? That's crazy talk.

He reveals truth. To who, I might ask????? Oh, only to those who blindly follow what their Sunday preacher man tells them is true from out of a primitive goat herder's manual that is 2000/3000 years old? So we're suppose to trust corrupt humans who claim to talk to God and we're supposed to believe in and follow what they tell us is God's will for us?????? And what if they're lying to us just to line their own pockets with our money or they're just on a power trip? More crazy unintelligible talk.

And why did Jesus talk in parables? Because he was a wise fellow? Hardly, since all these parables were made up by Greek scholars writing the gospels a 100 years after Jesus lived and didn't have a single reference to anything Jesus actually said. But assuming these parables are real, why is Jesus talking to us in nonsensical stories that will just confuse the hell out of us? To make us believe in him, or to trip us up logically so we cannot believe in him? Sounds to me like the latter. If Jesus wanted to teach us he was the divine son of God he would have just talked in plain language and revealed some astonishing secrets to us like how bacteria causes disease and that we should always wash our hands before eating to show he really was sent by God instead of all this mysterious mumbo-jumbo in a bunch of unintelligible parables. Again, nothing you say, snj makes the slightest bit of sense.

Last edited by thrillobyte; 06-09-2019 at 12:17 PM..
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:20 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,356 posts, read 7,016,012 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Did it every occur to you that God is doing everything az-backwards if what you say is true. He wants us to believe in Him but He doesn't reveal Himself visibly to us. Instead He hides behind trees and clouds and doesn't even yell audibly to us. So we're skeptical because we don't see ANYTHING that indicates God even exists. Yet God reveals Himself to a few weak-minded gullible fools who haven't a shred of evidence that prove He exists, and then turns around and punishes the skeptics for eternity in hellfire because the skeptic is just following the logic God has implanted in him NOT to believe in what he cannot see or hear? That's crazy talk.

He reveals truth. To who, I might ask????? Oh, only to those who blindly follow what their Sunday preacher man tells them is true from out of a primitive goat herder's manual that is 2000/3000 years old? So we're suppose to trust corrupt humans who claim to talk to God and we're supposed to believe in and follow what they tell us is God's will for us?????? And what if they're lying just to line their own pockets with our money or they're just on a power trip? More crazy unintelligible talk.

And why did Jesus talk in parables? Because he was a wise fellow? Hardly, since all these parables were made up by Greek scholars writing the gospels a 100 years after Jesus lived and didn't have a single reference to anything Jesus actually said. But assuming these parables are real, why is Jesus talking to us in nonsensical stories that will just confuse the hell out of us? To make us believe in him, or to trip us up logically so we cannot believe in him? Sounds to me like the latter. If Jesus wanted to teach us he was the divine son of God he would have just talked in plain language and revealed some astonishing secrets to us like how bacteria causes disease and that we should always wash our hands before eating to show he really was sent by God instead of all this mysterious mumbo-jumbo in the parables. Again, nothing you say, snj makes the slightest bit of sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15 View Post
Here's an interesting one about jesus picking and choosing with parables..

Matthew 13:10-17 International Children’s Bible (ICB)

Why Jesus Used Stories to Teach
10 The followers came to Jesus and asked, “Why do you use stories to teach the people?”


11 Jesus answered, “Only you can know the secret truths about the kingdom of heaven. Other people cannot know these secret truths.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...rsion=NKJV;ICB
Q.E.D. l
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,016 posts, read 54,523,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Salvation is by grace through faith. That's it. It is not by works or merit. What God gives me I could never earn! Praise be to God! Praise be to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! God saves the unworthy, the sinners. People like me. Why? Because of love! Love is the reason God saves the fallen, not because we deserved it.
Which has nothing to do with my post you quoted.
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:45 PM
 
40,043 posts, read 26,725,598 times
Reputation: 6048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
This seems to boil down to the all-too-common "See, I am special/will get Heaven, and you are not/will get Hell" message sent by fundamentalists.
That's not what it's supposed to be about, sorry.
It appeals to ego and for that reason is useful in recruiting to a specific group. Sadly, that is the history of the human social dynamic that fosters tribalism and the rejection of the "other."
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,016 posts, read 54,523,130 times
Reputation: 66369
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It appeals to ego and for that reason is useful in recruiting to a specific group. Sadly, that is the history of the human social dynamic that fosters tribalism and the rejection of the "other."
Good point. It's the old "Us v. Them" thing.

Any religion built on that base is fraudulent.
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:56 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,356 posts, read 7,016,012 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It appeals to ego and for that reason is useful in recruiting to a specific group. Sadly, that is the history of the human social dynamic that fosters tribalism and the rejection of the "other."
God is love (1 John 4:8). Would you agree? Is love, by its nature, indiscriminate? or, rather, discriminating? Does a man love his wife the same way he loves all women? Does he love his children the same way he loves all children?
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Old 06-09-2019, 01:38 PM
 
808 posts, read 430,359 times
Reputation: 1811
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
God is love (1 John 4:8). Would you agree? Is love, by its nature, indiscriminate? or, rather, discriminating? Does a man love his wife the same way he loves all women? Does he love his children the same way he loves all children?
“Love is not selective, just as the light of the sun is not selective. It does not make one person special. It is not exclusive. Exclusivity is not the love of God but the "love" of ego. However, the intensity with which true love is felt can vary. There may be one person who reflects your love back to you more clearly and more intensely than others, and if that person feels the same toward you, it can be said that you are in a love relationship with him or her. The bond that connects you with that person is the same bond that connects you with the person sitting next to you on a bus, or with a bird, a tree, a flower. Only the degree of intensity with which it is felt differs.”

― Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment
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