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Old 06-18-2019, 03:05 PM
 
11,267 posts, read 11,282,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I hate to get too philosophical here, but this kind of dismissal of things that manifest within our Reality as not real has always amazed me. You do realize that EVERYTHING and I do mean EVERYTHING that manifests within our Reality is real and substantive or it could not manifest. Whatever we prefer to think the substrate of our Reality IS, it is what is "transformed" so that ANYTHING can manifest. I use the term energy for the substrate, but many are confused by it. Whatever the substrate is - it is "substantive" and what is transformed to manifest within our Reality (a transformation of the substrate). Translation for Rio Linda, thoughts and feelings and imaginations are Real and substantive within our Reality, we just do not have a clear idea where they reside within the 95+%.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
thats true. But then we can say that about everything.

I think people take some basic truths to the N-th degree and turn a completely reasonable claim into something completely irrational.

I see it in anti-religious atheism and theist theism, lol, theist theism, but I digress.

yes, religion is as dangerous as a running chain saw. They take that reasonable notion and turn it into deny everything so theist can't use anything.

Yes, we are part of a larger more complex system that is clearly better described as "life" over "non-life". I use QM to make that claim. The fundy thiest take that and turn it into a bearded guy in the sky throwing lighting bolts at us.

what do we do thrill?

you and I have have similar beliefs about the universe. Mystic isn't to far off of our beliefs. Yeah, he goes further than i would go but many of the traits he assigned to his thing lines up with what we see.

he is also completely open and honest about his experiences being his experience. We have to be completely honest that many people have his experiences. I don't see it as subjective I see it as lights going on and off.

I ask ... what is causing those experiences and how do they line up with the standard model?

I do not use "I think religion is dangerous" to describe a mechanism for how the universe works.

I dunno what to do, Arach. I'm reading Mystic's response and scratching my head again. Mystic says EVERYTHING is substantive. Presumably that would include a passing lust for my sexy neighbor who I see in her bra across the street occasionally. I was following him a little until I got to "substrate". Then he completely lost me again. But then while my thinking is pretty black and white earthbound, Mystic's is up near Uranus--maybe not quite that high, maybe one of its moons.
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:09 PM
 
11,267 posts, read 11,282,861 times
Reputation: 3470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
The secrets of god and the universe were revealed to me after eating a chili dog at Sheetz.

Chili today, hot tamale.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:22 PM
 
13,493 posts, read 5,008,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I dunno what to do, Arach. I'm reading Mystic's response and scratching my head again. Mystic says EVERYTHING is substantive. Presumably that would include a passing lust for my sexy neighbor who I see in her bra across the street occasionally. I was following him a little until I got to "substrate". Then he completely lost me again. But then while my thinking is pretty black and white earthbound, Mystic's is up near Uranus--maybe not quite that high, maybe one of its moons.
substrate is just a field. basically a set of points everywhere in space that has a set of descriptors.

you know quantum stuff, he is just calling the energy that everything arises from the "substrate". Since we don't know what would happen if we could actually bring a volume in space to zero energy, on an absolute scale, it looks like we froze out of something. Like ice in water. he calls that the substrate.

what he is saying is that we see fields everywhere else. Or a set of strings if you will. he says that if everything else is a field then consciousness is a field too.

I don't agree, I think the system is a set of fields interacting. but the effect is actually the same. He feels the connection to the larger set of information exchange. I think he is mistaken about it being a substrate its more of an emergent type thing to me.

I say we are in a set of interacting fields that is life. for me, the biosphere. The whole of the system we are in is not best described as not alive. That claim just doesn't have any observational support. in fact, its a nonsensical claim.

for me, being atheist, i don't agree or disagree with a claim based on a statement of belief about god (yes or no). I can only look at what we see and weigh claims next to each other.

"deny everything so theist can't use it and make atheism harder to sell" just doesn't hold up to even the simplest of claims. Its just not science.

hey, did your tone change over the last few weeks? you seem to be more precise lately. its good stuff.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:50 PM
 
11,267 posts, read 11,282,861 times
Reputation: 3470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
substrate is just a field. basically a set of points everywhere in space that has a set of descriptors.

you know quantum stuff, he is just calling the energy that everything arises from the "substrate". Since we don't know what would happen if we could actually bring a volume in space to zero energy, on an absolute scale, it looks like we froze out of something. Like ice in water. he calls that the substrate.

what he is saying is that we see fields everywhere else. Or a set of strings if you will. he says that if everything else is a field then consciousness is a field too.

I don't agree, I think the system is a set of fields interacting. but the effect is actually the same. He feels the connection to the larger set of information exchange. I think he is mistaken about it being a substrate its more of an emergent type thing to me.

I say we are in a set of interacting fields that is life. for me, the biosphere. The whole of the system we are in is not best described as not alive. That claim just doesn't have any observational support. in fact, its a nonsensical claim.

for me, being atheist, i don't agree or disagree with a claim based on a statement of belief about god (yes or no). I can only look at what we see and weigh claims next to each other.

"deny everything so theist can't use it and make atheism harder to sell" just doesn't hold up to even the simplest of claims. Its just not science.

hey, did your tone change over the last few weeks? you seem to be more precise lately. its good stuff.

I think I had a mystical experience like Mystic did. Whatever the cause thank you.
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