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Old 06-08-2019, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,453 posts, read 10,395,261 times
Reputation: 20311

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
I know, right?
When I was a Christian...it took 6 months for my intensely atheist boyfriend to say,
"You are the most Christian person I have ever met."
Why?
I never once brought up my faith, or ever tried to change him in any way.
Even then, when I considered myself a Born Again Christian....I KNEW....everyone is fine wherever
they are in the life, on their own Path.
He didn't need to hear one word from me...(he was an ex Catholic himself....he knew more
about the Bible than I did, actually, most atheists do).
You and I have quite different views of christianity, but it's nice to agree here. I don't care for the I have something you need to hear style of evangelism. I'd rather see high levels of principles being lived. That impressed me most.

When I think of the aspects of christianity which most impress me, it's always about the people who simply live their lives as Jesus might have wanted them to...as opposed to those who feel compelled to -- again -- be fishers of men.
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:19 AM
 
40,043 posts, read 26,725,598 times
Reputation: 6048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
1. He does have a mission. He has stated all along that he thinks his belief is an answer to life for everybody.
2. OK. But again, so what?
You can ask him the question, but I think the answer is "of course not". If he believes he has the "right" answer, as many religious people do, he is not going to be open to the "wrong" ones.
Some of us have answered his question as to why we would not consider him doing us a favor with proselytizing. You seem to be angered simply by the fact that he IS promoting his belief, and that's what I don't get.
I find he's going about it a little more honestly than some.
He is and Phet is acting as the real Fundy here with his bigoted and biased perceptions of CV"s motives which he simply can NOT be privy to.
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,335,973 times
Reputation: 2611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itzpapalotl View Post
I would first and foremost question the efficacy of any "cure" before I proffer it to anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
I already stated...I would be convinced in the power of the pill. It wouldn't be offered "off the cuff". It would be offered because I truly believed it was the answer however I came to that conclusion.
Your 'true belief' is not good enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
Fish, as usual, you make a solid point. Man, I understand the wanting evidence. As I told another poster, I have a brain and it likes to question. "CV," it says, "How can you possibly believe something you can' touch or see? Where's your evidence?"

To that I respond...faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. God is really, really big on the faith/trust thing. Without faith, we are told, it is impossible to please Him.
So you think that a method that can easily proven to be the most unreliable way of determining what is true (faith), is the best way to determine what is true?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
What you see as trying not be offensive, I see as being ingratiating to meet his mission. But that's just me.
Me too. We call it 'slimy'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Ok, a story....I never said a word about Jesus or God...Here, I am with a dirty, homeless type in a bar late at night in my local area...He tells me his tale of woe...OH MY....
blood in his urine, no money for MDs....and some other health things...looks me in the eye and says, "It's serious." I have my hand on his shoulder...I silently do a healing (meaning i talk to the Holy Spirit
and tell Him to heal this guy.)

I don't go back to this bar for 1 month....I stop in one evening....
HERE HE IS ....clean shaven, cut his hair, clean clothes, I say ,"Keith?"...he opens his arms and says, "You healed me!"
From that evening on no more blood, no more severe pains...he told everyone.


They all know now...and I never proselytized a thing. They all knew it was God. (Words are words, man.)
I really can't understand why there are people lying in hospital beds in your town!
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Old 06-09-2019, 04:42 AM
 
13,476 posts, read 4,986,806 times
Reputation: 1365
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
He is and Phet is acting as the real Fundy here with his bigoted and biased perceptions of CV"s motives which he simply can NOT be privy to.
she is scared and religion is the trigger. given her age, its only to get worse. What some Christians to did to her a real shame, and we have to live with what they turned her into.

I think the important bit is that we need to evaluate the claims based under that condition. She isn't all wrong, its just the calibration weights are completely off. But when we take her perspective, that being the calibration is off, her stance is predicted to a high degree of accuracy. edit ... added much later ... I should say precision.

how do we deal with this type of person is any situation? here, forcing a set of morals on us? morals that are based on the calibration tools being wrong? what do we do?

Last edited by Arach Angle; 06-09-2019 at 05:07 AM..
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:01 AM
 
3,638 posts, read 1,133,437 times
Reputation: 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
This is a carryover from Troutdudes's thread about the Fundamentalist Christian Agenda. I make a separate post to respect his original subject matter and try to not get it WAY off topic.

Ok, there was alot of conversation about "Invasive" Christians. In fact, it was mentioned that the mere action of just talking to someone about it was an invasive sin.

I feel compelled to just try and share this...I can only hope it makes some sense.

Let us say you, who are reading this, and I are real life friends. We know each other face to face. Maybe we work together. Let us also say you become very ill. You're in the hospital and your life is hanging in the balance. Doctors are struggling to determine what's going on in your body.
Let us then say...I'm convinced, beyond doubt, that I have the cure for you. It's a little pill that will heal you. Again...right or wrong...I'm convinced.

What kind of friend would I be if I chose not to try and share this with you? If I chose to not come see you and urge you to take this pill because it would save your life? Maybe I was afraid of offending the doctors and being mocked for such silliness. Maybe I was even afraid of offending you somehow, someway...

And, of course, you may resist, completely, the notion of taking this pill. You may tell me--directly--that you are not interested and please shut my trap about it and stuff my little pill...the case is closed. To that, I would say.....ok. It would break my heart. But, I could not force you to try what I offer...it's your choice. I'd respect that.

But, the question remains...what would a true friend at least try to do? What would you do in my position?

That's how I feel, in my heart, about the message of Christ. I'm convinced I'm talking about a life and death situation. I don't say that tritely...I mean it...life and death.

So, that brings us to the question? What am I to do? Do I let "fear of man" keep me quiet? No, I have to at least try. I'd never forgive myself if I didn't.

As silly as this may seem...I mean it. I care about people. Yes, Christ gave me a commission to take His news to the world. But, it goes even beyond that for me. I'm convinced I have the answer for Life. In every aspect. Maybe I'm wrong...but, maybe...I'm right.

So...because I simply care---even about people I've never met nor will meet, I share the message I've been given and blessed with. I will always do so...if 99 peeps rebuff, ridicule, or refuse...so be it. I will rejoice if only one listens.

But, as I've stated numerous times... I'll just share. If the person isn't interested or rebuffs me and says "Go away"...I will comply. I will not try to force anything on anybody. And, as equally shared, I can still like you, I could still be your friend, I could still respect you.

Jesus said let those who have ears...hear. I guess I say likewise.
He, Jesus, is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

Not much of a friend if he didnít know before getting sick that you had a majik pill.

Is that something friends would keep from each other?
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:45 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,356 posts, read 7,016,012 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
This is a carryover from Troutdudes's thread about the Fundamentalist Christian Agenda. I make a separate post to respect his original subject matter and try to not get it WAY off topic.

Ok, there was alot of conversation about "Invasive" Christians. In fact, it was mentioned that the mere action of just talking to someone about it was an invasive sin.

I feel compelled to just try and share this...I can only hope it makes some sense.

Let us say you, who are reading this, and I are real life friends. We know each other face to face. Maybe we work together. Let us also say you become very ill. You're in the hospital and your life is hanging in the balance. Doctors are struggling to determine what's going on in your body.
Let us then say...I'm convinced, beyond doubt, that I have the cure for you. It's a little pill that will heal you. Again...right or wrong...I'm convinced.

What kind of friend would I be if I chose not to try and share this with you? If I chose to not come see you and urge you to take this pill because it would save your life? Maybe I was afraid of offending the doctors and being mocked for such silliness. Maybe I was even afraid of offending you somehow, someway...

And, of course, you may resist, completely, the notion of taking this pill. You may tell me--directly--that you are not interested and please shut my trap about it and stuff my little pill...the case is closed. To that, I would say.....ok. It would break my heart. But, I could not force you to try what I offer...it's your choice. I'd respect that.

But, the question remains...what would a true friend at least try to do? What would you do in my position?

That's how I feel, in my heart, about the message of Christ. I'm convinced I'm talking about a life and death situation. I don't say that tritely...I mean it...life and death.

So, that brings us to the question? What am I to do? Do I let "fear of man" keep me quiet? No, I have to at least try. I'd never forgive myself if I didn't.

As silly as this may seem...I mean it. I care about people. Yes, Christ gave me a commission to take His news to the world. But, it goes even beyond that for me. I'm convinced I have the answer for Life. In every aspect. Maybe I'm wrong...but, maybe...I'm right.

So...because I simply care---even about people I've never met nor will meet, I share the message I've been given and blessed with. I will always do so...if 99 peeps rebuff, ridicule, or refuse...so be it. I will rejoice if only one listens.

But, as I've stated numerous times... I'll just share. If the person isn't interested or rebuffs me and says "Go away"...I will comply. I will not try to force anything on anybody. And, as equally shared, I can still like you, I could still be your friend, I could still respect you.

Jesus said let those who have ears...hear. I guess I say likewise.
He, Jesus, is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
I agree with you, and I admire your zeal for preaching the Gospel. Me, I do not do it even nearly as much as I should. Romans 7:19...
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,570 posts, read 21,713,951 times
Reputation: 18110
Casual visitor, I would thank you because I understand your certainty of your belief. I would be respectful and would hope you would also be respectful in turn.

I would tell you that I have no fear of death and the present seems to be my time to be united again with the creator.That would close the discussion for me
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Old 06-09-2019, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
5,661 posts, read 2,867,508 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
*chuckles* I know of what you speak...oh, yeah...
Yet, all I can say is...that pill wears off eventually. It's a temporary thing.

*nods* Equally back to you...rest in peace.
What I meant was that the little white box holds the ashes of my son who was not helped by the hypothetical little pill.

If I were to be offered this pill that you are so convinced would cure me and save my life, the first thing I would ask for is verifiable evidence. I would google it, ask doctors, ask known survivors and of course, ask you how you know about it and not doctors who are after all, in the medical profession.

Taking the analogy back to it's roots - the salvation, how do we know that anyone has actually received this salvation? Once they are dead, they stay dead and we can't ask them. No-one can prove anything so to me it's just an empty claim. Not only is it an empty claim but it makes no sense whatsoever. Besides, the bible actually states that no man can pay for the sins of another.
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Old 06-09-2019, 11:38 AM
 
39,034 posts, read 10,825,389 times
Reputation: 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
For me, I don't really care for posters who try to be sly and hide their real intentions.
I will say this much - I think this guy is 'what you see is what you get'. He believes, he is concerned for our souls and he wants to save us. The way to do that is through Faith.

This means (I believe) that the rationale behind the arguments (that we don't credit the faith he is trying to peddle) counts for nothing with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
As a long-time mod in a previous internet incarnation, I've honed my Spidey sense to detect falseness. And I'm pretty damn good.

CV strikes me as a well-meaning, still-wet-from-being-born-again, Christian newbie. I've seen the same fervour in recently-sober rookies at AA meetings.

In other words, he's naive and thinks he's doing what his Jesus-god wants him to do.

I'll grant you obsequious, though.
Agreed. The Good Cop does seem a bit saccharine to me too , but it beats the bad cop for having a discussion with.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-09-2019 at 11:59 AM..
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Old 06-09-2019, 11:47 AM
 
39,034 posts, read 10,825,389 times
Reputation: 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
1. You misunderstand me. I expect to find this here. And it's okay here. This place is about discussion on religious topics. But that doesn't mean that individual posters don't have a mission.

2. What you see as trying not be offensive, I see as being ingratiating to meet his mission.

But that's just me.

The question is -- at least to me -- would he be as "open-minded" (as he wants us to be) to proselytizing if he were the target of a Buddhist (except we don't do that), a Hindu, a Sikh, a Wiccan, a Satan-worshiper...or even a Mormon? Why do I think the answer is no. Having seen a Born Again confronted by a Satan worshiper once, I didn't see any open-mindedness. I didn't see any, "I'm willing to listen". It was more like a scene out of "The Exorcist".
I agree - he is openly proselytizing here. It's what we expect. It is par for the course. This is not an academic discussion; it is between two sides that are convinced that their views are right- one of faith with eternal life or eternal Something Else as the objective and the other side arguing on reason with the mission of a world free of control by the deluded, if it comes down to it.

We are honest about our agenda; CV is honest about his. It is a refreshing change from atheists who roll up here and start slamming me and my Ilk as the wrong kind of atheist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
You and I have quite different views of christianity, but it's nice to agree here. I don't care for the I have something you need to hear style of evangelism. I'd rather see high levels of principles being lived. That impressed me most.

When I think of the aspects of christianity which most impress me, it's always about the people who simply live their lives as Jesus might have wanted them to...as opposed to those who feel compelled to -- again -- be fishers of men.
I agree again, and if CV wasn't so honest, open and Nice about it, it would be insufferable. Bottom line - what he is selling is rubbish. The person selling it is splendid.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-09-2019 at 12:00 PM..
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