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Old 06-09-2019, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,013 posts, read 54,523,130 times
Reputation: 66369

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I agree - he is openly proselytizing here. It's what we expect. It is par for the course. This is not an academic discussion; it is between two sides that are convinced that their views are right- one of faith with eternal life or eternal Something Else as the objective and the other side arguing on reason with a world free of control by the deluded, if it comes down to it.

We are honest about our agenda; CV is honest about his. It is a refreshing change from atheists who roll up here and start slamming me and my Ilk as the wrong kind of atheist.
...or the kind who roll up in here and slam me and my ilk as the wrong kind of theist. Hehe.

But that's why I asked him the questions I asked in Post #38, which, regrettably, CV seems to have decided not to address.

I still feel a connection to something even though the version of God he wishes to sell was not real to me. I sought/still seek on my own even though the whole "asking God to come into your heart and he will speak to you" schtick turned out to be a crock.

I'd like to know what his answer is to people who find out that what he said there isn't true.

I know what my answer would be: "Turn and walk away if God won't respond to you and maybe you'll find out that God's something different than what you're presenting God to be."

Or maybe you won't find anything at all, as is the case with so many others.
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:10 PM
 
39,034 posts, read 10,825,389 times
Reputation: 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
...or the kind who roll up in here and slam me and my ilk as the wrong kind of theist. Hehe.

But that's why I asked him the questions I asked in Post #38, which, regrettably, CV seems to have decided not to address.

I still feel a connection to something even though the version of God he wishes to sell was not real to me. I sought/still seek on my own even though the whole "asking God to come into your heart and he will speak to you" schtick turned out to be a crock.

I'd like to know what his answer is to people who find out that what he said there isn't true.

I know what my answer would be: "Turn and walk away if God won't respond to you and maybe you'll find out that God's something different than what you're presenting God to be."

Or maybe you won't find anything at all, as is the case with so many others.
Yes. He is selling a specific kind of Theism (a religious one) and there is no room for the theism that doesn't embrace Jesus. I don't know whether that covers any religion that believes in Jesus, or whether denominational differences come into it.
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Old 06-09-2019, 02:52 PM
 
13,476 posts, read 4,986,806 times
Reputation: 1365
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I agree - he is openly proselytizing here. It's what we expect. It is par for the course. This is not an academic discussion; it is between two sides that are convinced that their views are right- one of faith with eternal life or eternal Something Else as the objective and the other side arguing on reason with the mission of a world free of control by the deluded, if it comes down to it.

We are honest about our agenda; CV is honest about his. It is a refreshing change from atheists who roll up here and start slamming me and my Ilk as the wrong kind of atheist.



I agree again, and if CV wasn't so honest, open and Nice about it, it would be insufferable. Bottom line - what he is selling is rubbish. The person selling it is splendid.
yup, its like stalin and castro agreeing about people being honest.

yeah, thats proves the point.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:08 AM
 
106 posts, read 26,276 times
Reputation: 26
Before anything else…a direct word to 303Guy.

I deeply apologize for my flippant comment in regards to your post. In ,total, honesty, I felt a true “check” in my spirit that said “Don’t make that comment you’re about to make”. But, I was in a “cute” mood and didn’t listen. Now, I have my keyboard in my mouth. I will send you a direct message to insure you see this…again, I hope you accept my sincere apology.


I’ve read the posts and, for time’s sake, I’ll try to address some of the comments with this all in one. It’s always a time issue for me, I’m not trying to ignore you I promise.

Ok, there was some talk about my hidden agenda, or to my coy ploy here. To that, I must again apologize. I openly stated my “Agenda” over in Trout’s “The American Fundamentalist Agenda” thread. But, as is often the case with me, I thought I’d posted it here.

My agenda is open. As open as any open book. I want to take the message of Jesus to all that will listen and consider. I want to share what He’s done in my life as I may. It’s just that open, it’s just that simple, it’s just that sincere.

Now, some noted, “Does he really think everybody hasn’t already heard about his Jesus?” To that I would concur on this level. Yes, most, if not all, have heard about Jesus. But, it’s been on the logos/mind level. There is knowledge on the subject. But, what I’m hoping for is the rhema/spiritual level of knowing. That moment when the mind says “This is stupid, it’s crazy, it makes no sense!!!” But, the spirit screams back even louder…”This IS Truth. I can’t explain it, I don’t understand but…It’s surely truth.”

That’s what I pray for most everybody in here. (in addition to prayers of protection, health, peace,) That God will bring them to that point sometime in their life either now or later. That defining moment when, just as Pontius Pilate uttered, “What is Truth?” the spirit will distinctively say, “Jesus is the Truth…” and they will hear it.

There was mention of my “Schtick” or my Good Cop routine. I’m defenseless here. What you see is pretty much what you get. I’m not acting out a role. I’m honestly trying to just be me. Such is my nature. I’ve said it---I like/love people. That extends here. Nah, I don’t know you folks…but, I like and respect you. That’s why I hope I never do something stupid by ridiculing or mocking your own thoughts and beliefs. That’s just not my normal style. UNLESS, as I’ve previously alluded, you’re a Chicago Cub’s fan…now we’re talking an entirely different story. (chuckle)

As to my maniacal ego? I simply have no response to that if that’s truly how you see me.

MQ…you’re post was thoughtful and VERY deep. Time precludes me even attempting to respond to that. But, again…wow…a very well stated positional post if you will. Quite so.

That’s all I can say for the moment. I will close with one direct comment to one of my absolute favorites here. You feel my message is rubbish. To that I say, one man’s rubbish is another man’s treasure.

But, even more so…in regards to the “Splendid” comment. Well…I echo that back to you in all fullness. In many ways, I think you define the word “Splendid”. I mean it...*points to self* Would this face lie?

Last thing. Ok, I am NOT the “Oracle of CV”. But ,if anyone would ever desire to make a direct question to me via the direct message system here, I PROMISE I will answer. Just bear with me on that though. Again, that’s just if anyone had something specific perhaps. I…will…answer. Just a thought.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Florida
19,786 posts, read 19,886,317 times
Reputation: 23202
A question to you CV, is why do you presume to think people not interested in your message about how wonderful it is for youare wanting or lacking and not just as happy with their lives as they are?
It's not just the annoyance but the presumptuousness of it.
It can actually be considered insulting. Maybe even a little more so here, where it's not a matter of ignorance or lack of exposure. We here are obviously more than 'sorta' aware.
I'm happy for you if it all makes you warm and fuzzy but I'm not even chilly (No pun on my user name intended
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:00 PM
 
106 posts, read 26,276 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
A question to you CV, is why do you presume to think people not interested in your message about how wonderful it is for youare wanting or lacking and not just as happy with their lives as they are?
It's not just the annoyance but the presumptuousness of it.
It can actually be considered insulting. Maybe even a little more so here, where it's not a matter of ignorance or lack of exposure. We here are obviously more than 'sorta' aware.
I'm happy for you if it all makes you warm and fuzzy but I'm not even chilly (No pun on my user name intended
A fair question. Indeed so.

I guess I would put it this way. Yes, a person can walk and live a happy life with or without God. There is no doubt of that. Now, from my take, is there much, much more that they’re missing? Yes, equally no doubt. Nonetheless; happiness is attainable with or without God.

And, I grant what you said at to the “awareness” level of many here. There is much knowledge about the subject of God or no God. As stated in my previous note…it’s mostly logos/logic level. But, it’s still great knowledge indeed.

My hope? That I might, as God allows, offer a different thought that a given individual may have never encountered before. As much as we might know about God (and I totally include myself on this) there is still an immense amount we don’t know or understand.

On that subject, I freely admit. I’ve learned quite a lot from reading other’s posts in my short time here. And, I’m not just talking about the “In Support of God” realm. I’ve seen several things that have given me pause to think and consider. Some of the posters here are probably Mensa level...

Finally…my perception is this is an ever evolving place. As in, new folks are coming in on a rather frequent basis. Or, at the least, there are many that I’ve not yet seen a post from nor have they seen a post from me. So, on any given day, the message I share might be falling on “fresh ears” so to speak.

But, my theme remains the same, or so I strive. Man, I do...

I share, I offer, I tell...it’s up to the reader to decide for themselves, consider, or reject. And, I try to then respect their choice. I’ve yet to point a digital finger in anyone’s face that dismisses my words and said “OH yeah? Well, Turn or Burn Pal!” (though there are those among my ilk that would bash me for not being more that way…but…I digress)

I wish you well Old. I truly do. Living in Florida, it’s doubtful you’ll ever be too…chilly. All best to you and yours.
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:43 PM
 
5,133 posts, read 2,529,270 times
Reputation: 383
'The Christian Message...An Analogy' as per Luke 4:43 is Jesus teaching about God's Kingdom government of Daniel 2:44.
That good news message Jesus gave to all at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 to tell the whole world about the good news of God's Kingdom.
Jesus, as King of God's Kingdom government, will be the one who will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
We don't pray to be ' taken away' to Jesus, nor pray to be ' taken up' to Jesus but for Jesus to come !
Come and bring the blessing benefits of Rev. 22:2 to Earth when mankind will see the return of the Genesis 'tree of life ' on Earth for the ' healing ' of earth's nations.
Jesus will fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families of Earth and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed - Genesis 12:3; 18:18; 22:18
Blessed with the benefit of ' healing ' as described in the 35th chapter of Isaiah.
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Old 06-10-2019, 03:38 PM
 
39,034 posts, read 10,825,389 times
Reputation: 5082
This is another one not for me - mainly because it is about faith. It isn't about the evidence, which i will argue about until the punters are screaming for mercy (see the 'Nativity' thread now deep in Roman Consulship and Syrian numismatics ) But CV's or Matthew's appeals to faith are not going to make any impression on those who say 'The Bible is not reliable', Gospel Jesus never existed (even if there was a Jesus of some sort) and Christianity is not, in fact, true. So faith -based declarations, appeals and assertions are quite simply salvoes in the wrong direction.
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:27 AM
 
3,062 posts, read 1,563,443 times
Reputation: 3202
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post

I share, I offer, I tell...it’s up to the reader to decide for themselves, consider, or reject. And, I try to then respect their choice .
"I try to then respect" indicates that respect from you comes second. But in order for me to earn your respect, I have to respect you first and listen to what you have to say. You are fine with this because you have a magic pill, a gift for me, that you seem to be withholding until the time is right.

This is pretty much standard human behavior for pretty much any idea or belief out there. So why is "I share, I offer, I tell" controversial for some when it comes to Christianity or any religious belief for that matter? It is because of the refusal to place that belief on the same playing field with all the other ideas, beliefs or even objects that people think will help us.

Any time these things are offered to us, we have to decide for ourselves to consider it or reject it. Once it is offered, you have placed the responsibility on the listener to decide. But the ball is being placed back on your court. Where is your responsibility for determining if you're actually being helpful?
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:19 AM
 
39,034 posts, read 10,825,389 times
Reputation: 5082
I share, I offer, I tell, is actually a bit better than 'Not arguing - just telling' as it used to be at the start of my time here. The idea being 'I want to preach - I don't expect to be called upon to defend my preaching'. That's if is wasn't 'I don't expect you to presume to question my preaching'.

Whatever the Thought behind it, Show and tell of any kind is going to be open to challenge and question, and 'Just telling' gets the same response as does Mr Tricky himself with his 'stating an opinion is not a claim' (and thus excuses him from having to produce any valid evidence for it): "Anyone saying anything on the Forum is making a claim which they are offering for acceptance. It is open to question and argument, and no excuses will be accepted'.

They can of course not be obliged to support their contention with any evidence (whether good or bad), but if they don't, the conclusion is going to be that they have nothing to support the claim. "Faith" being itself Not a good reason for believing any claim.
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