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Old 06-11-2019, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Manchester,England
15 posts, read 1,765 times
Reputation: 20

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I agree with casual visitor, as Christians we are required to mention to others the gift of eternal life on offer given to us by the divine sacrifice on the cross. Many will use their free will to reject this and that is fair enough, if you are not willing to seek then you will never find. I came to faith through an interest in Astronomy & with the nagging thought on surveying the night sky, about a creator God, I recited a prayer & thought no more about it. The coming days/weeks brought with them a series of coincidences that I could not ignore and I read a book on Christian spirituality which talked about the work of the Holy spirit and reminded the reader of Bishop Temples famous remark "every time I prayer coincidences happen", along with the experiences of many Christians who have moved from the secular to the spiritual I have had 23 years of so called coincidences ever since.
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,335,973 times
Reputation: 2611
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN600 View Post
I agree with casual visitor, as Christians we are required to mention to others the gift of eternal life on offer given to us by the divine sacrifice on the cross. Many will use their free will to reject this and that is fair enough, if you are not willing to seek then you will never find. I came to faith through an interest in Astronomy & with the nagging thought on surveying the night sky, about a creator God, I recited a prayer & thought no more about it. The coming days/weeks brought with them a series of coincidences that I could not ignore and I read a book on Christian spirituality which talked about the work of the Holy spirit and reminded the reader of Bishop Temples famous remark "every time I prayer coincidences happen", along with the experiences of many Christians who have moved from the secular to the spiritual I have had 23 years of so called coincidences ever since.
How do you account for the followers of dozens if not hundreds of other religions that also claim to have 'coincidences' with their gods?
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:07 AM
 
106 posts, read 26,276 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
"I try to then respect" indicates that respect from you comes second. But in order for me to earn your respect, I have to respect you first and listen to what you have to say. You are fine with this because you have a magic pill, a gift for me, that you seem to be withholding until the time is right.

This is pretty much standard human behavior for pretty much any idea or belief out there. So why is "I share, I offer, I tell" controversial for some when it comes to Christianity or any religious belief for that matter? It is because of the refusal to place that belief on the same playing field with all the other ideas, beliefs or even objects that people think will help us.

Any time these things are offered to us, we have to decide for ourselves to consider it or reject it. Once it is offered, you have placed the responsibility on the listener to decide. But the ball is being placed back on your court. Where is your responsibility for determining if you're actually being helpful?
Hello elyn...

As to respect coming first or second or whatever.
I've tried to be clear about this. I strive to respect everybody here from the start. I truly do. Why? Because, from my viewpoint, they are not some insect that crawled out of a slime pool eons ago but they are a creation of God. Made in His image. That alone demands my respect. And, that basic level of respect is not altered by their acceptance or denial of what I share. It's really about love for other's.

As to am I being helpful? I could elaborate on this but, in truth, it's not for me to determine that aspect. I may never see, on earth, any result of what I do here. The Bible speaks of some being planters, some being those that water, some being those that reap. I'ts often a process that brings a person to the place in their life when they accept Jesus. And, along the way, many people, situations, happenings, may play a part. Look at the post by John600 shortly before this one. He read a book about Christian Spirituality...somebody wrote that book. They played their part.

I only do what I'm called to do...share the message of Jesus. I try to play my part in the process. After that, it's out of my hands for the most part.

In the end, I say to you what I say to many in here. I've read some of your posts and you seem like a very good person. I sense a gentle spirit within you. With that, I wish you the very best both to you and yours.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,455 posts, read 10,395,261 times
Reputation: 20311
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I share, I offer, I tell, is actually a bit better than 'Not arguing - just telling' as it used to be at the start of my time here. The idea being 'I want to preach - I don't expect to be called upon to defend my preaching'. That's if is wasn't 'I don't expect you to presume to question my preaching'.

Whatever the Thought behind it, Show and tell of any kind is going to be open to challenge and question, and 'Just telling' gets the same response as does Mr Tricky himself with his 'stating an opinion is not a claim' (and thus excuses him from having to produce any valid evidence for it): "Anyone saying anything on the Forum is making a claim which they are offering for acceptance. It is open to question and argument, and no excuses will be accepted'.

They can of course not be obliged to support their contention with any evidence (whether good or bad), but if they don't, the conclusion is going to be that they have nothing to support the claim. "Faith" being itself Not a good reason for believing any claim.
well stated
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,455 posts, read 10,395,261 times
Reputation: 20311
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN600 View Post
I agree with casual visitor, as Christians we are required to mention to others the gift of eternal life on offer given to us by the divine sacrifice on the cross. Many will use their free will to reject this and that is fair enough, if you are not willing to seek then you will never find. I came to faith through an interest in Astronomy & with the nagging thought on surveying the night sky, about a creator God, I recited a prayer & thought no more about it. The coming days/weeks brought with them a series of coincidences that I could not ignore and I read a book on Christian spirituality which talked about the work of the Holy spirit and reminded the reader of Bishop Temples famous remark "every time I prayer coincidences happen", along with the experiences of many Christians who have moved from the secular to the spiritual I have had 23 years of so called coincidences ever since.
As Buddhists we believe in seeking as well...but not being led to the path by others.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:25 AM
 
39,035 posts, read 10,825,389 times
Reputation: 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
... they are not some insect that crawled out of a slime pool eons ago ...
Indeed not. We are the Fish that crawled out of the slime pool. The Insects were a different line altogether.

Back to topic...
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:29 AM
 
106 posts, read 26,276 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Indeed not. We are the Fish that crawled out of the slime pool. The Insects were a different line altogether.

Back to topic...
Duly noted oh splendid one. *nods northerly*
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:02 AM
 
Location: california
5,654 posts, read 4,878,328 times
Reputation: 6681
From my own experience some one that is not desperate to seek God for help is simply not yet a candidate .
In most events of conversion in the most genuine of events the desperate are more likely to see a radical change in them selves as well as others observations however those that have only been convinced intellectually realize a far less transformation if any.
Paul said ," If any man be in Christ ,he s a new creature. old things are passed away and all things become new. "
Though many Christians understand this in a real way it is a very difficult concept for the inexperienced to realize.
I have known people fearful of this and held resistance .they don't want change , they are not desperate to know God at all .
Or at lest till all hell breaks lose and all the threads they have held to are broken.
My Christian parents were not out spoken but they did take in people in trouble and I saw for my self the change that occurs when some one means business with God.
At 7 years old I made the decision on my own as a result . I am 69 this year . God is faithful .
I have friends that I don't push , they know what I believe and I don't have to say a thing sometimes, and they have an argument with me and I haven't said a word. " I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SAY, BUT...………………………………….."
Jesus never chased any one around nor argued a point with people ,He laid out the facts and went His way.
I know the power of God for healing both personally and for others ,but I do not foist my gift on others , there are two factors involved. The honest person in distress needs to ask God, and I need God's direction in the matter .
I do not manipulate , I cooperate with God . I am here to serve Him , His will is the greater good.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:24 AM
 
3,062 posts, read 1,563,443 times
Reputation: 3202
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualVisitor View Post
Hello elyn...

As to respect coming first or second or whatever.
I've tried to be clear about this. I strive to respect everybody here from the start. I truly do. Why? Because, from my viewpoint, they are not some insect that crawled out of a slime pool eons ago but they are a creation of God. Made in His image. That alone demands my respect. And, that basic level of respect is not altered by their acceptance or denial of what I share. It's really about love for other's.

As to am I being helpful? I could elaborate on this but, in truth, it's not for me to determine that aspect. I may never see, on earth, any result of what I do here. The Bible speaks of some being planters, some being those that water, some being those that reap. I'ts often a process that brings a person to the place in their life when they accept Jesus. And, along the way, many people, situations, happenings, may play a part. Look at the post by John600 shortly before this one. He read a book about Christian Spirituality...somebody wrote that book. They played their part.

I only do what I'm called to do...share the message of Jesus. I try to play my part in the process. After that, it's out of my hands for the most part.

In the end, I say to you what I say to many in here. I've read some of your posts and you seem like a very good person. I sense a gentle spirit within you. With that, I wish you the very best both to you and yours.
Thank you. I sense the same in you. I am actually not this confrontational in real life but I do find the whole "ruffled feathers" interesting and participate in trying to explain it so that I don't easily ruffle my own.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:25 AM
 
3,062 posts, read 1,563,443 times
Reputation: 3202
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I share, I offer, I tell, is actually a bit better than 'Not arguing - just telling' as it used to be at the start of my time here. The idea being 'I want to preach - I don't expect to be called upon to defend my preaching'. That's if is wasn't 'I don't expect you to presume to question my preaching'.

Whatever the Thought behind it, Show and tell of any kind is going to be open to challenge and question, and 'Just telling' gets the same response as does Mr Tricky himself with his 'stating an opinion is not a claim' (and thus excuses him from having to produce any valid evidence for it): "Anyone saying anything on the Forum is making a claim which they are offering for acceptance. It is open to question and argument, and no excuses will be accepted'.

They can of course not be obliged to support their contention with any evidence (whether good or bad), but if they don't, the conclusion is going to be that they have nothing to support the claim. "Faith" being itself Not a good reason for believing any claim.
Yes. I agree. Well stated. I understand this is the position they are coming from which is why I think we will never fully get rid of religion, not that has ever been a goal of mine.
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