U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-17-2019, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,085 posts, read 54,565,498 times
Reputation: 66460

Advertisements

Thanks for this thread, jbgusa.

I know that you are in the NYC metro area. I'm a 9/11 survivor who worked in the WTC for twenty years before the buildings went down. As you probably know, the WTC was a place where people of all sorts of backgrounds, religions, cultures, etc., worked together peacefully and then either died together or ran out together before the collapses, and then went back together to rebuild.

My song and dance since that time has been to seek out our commonalities rather than focusing only on our differences. It is not a magic bullet for peace, nor is it always easy, but if enough of us take that mindset rather than jump on the us-v-them bandwagon, maybe we can make a difference.

Your post perfectly illustrates how such commonalities can resonate across spiritual paths. I belong to a liberal-minded Christian community, and your first post rings true to me in its description of community.

As TroutDude pointed out, there does not have to be a formal, organized setting to sense that communion, although, as social animals, belonging to an organized community has worked well for many of us. In my case, I've needed it as some points in my life more than others.

Of course as others have said, there can also be negative aspects of community.

In general, however, I think you've identified an important aspect of why people often belong to a religious community even if they might have doubts or disagreement about its stated creed or purpose.

Now, if some from each community can just reach across to those in other communities to join forces in a larger community to make the world a little bit better...

Some already do. Shalom, jbgusa, or as we Episcopalians say, Peace be with you.
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: http://www.city-data.com/terms.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-17-2019, 08:07 AM
 
13,493 posts, read 4,996,362 times
Reputation: 1365
exactly why I can't be anti-religious people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2019, 08:33 AM
 
808 posts, read 430,951 times
Reputation: 1813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
In general, however, I think you've identified an important aspect of why people often belong to a religious community even if they might have doubts or disagreement about its stated creed or purpose.

Now, if some from each community can just reach across to those in other communities to join forces in a larger community to make the world a little bit better...





Some already do. Shalom, jbgusa, or as we Episcopalians say, Peace be with you.
I'm not a regular attendee, but from time to time, I do go to Unitarian churches. I've always been very impressed with how on a given Sunday morning various groups with differing beliefs will be all meeting at the church after the service. They even have atheist/agnostic/humanist classes and groups going on led by atheists/agnostics to discuss their beliefs. We all then reconvene in the commons area for coffee, fruit, and pastries.

No fights break out, no one gets a pastry smooshed into their face, no chairs thrown across the sanctuary. It is a peaceful coming together to practice or learn more about spirituality, life, and explore various paths. The Atheist with the Hindu with the Christian with the Buddhist hold hands at the church service and may sing 'Imagine' together or an old timey hymn or an ancient chant.

Isn't that how the world should be? I have hope that it will be much more that way in 50, 100, 200 years.

Shalom jbgusa, Peace be with you Mighty Queen, and as we Unitarians may say, Namaste.

Last edited by Chloe333; 06-17-2019 at 09:16 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2019, 04:43 AM
 
391 posts, read 198,734 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I held this post till tonight after sundown out of respect for my fellow Jews. I am posting it here rather than in the "Judaism" sub-forum since I believe it is of general applicability. However I am Jewish and the setting is a Reform Jewish service.

I just returned from Friday night services at my synagogue. The service was incredibly beautiful. The beauty of the service had little to do with whether or not G-d exists. The subject of the service was memorialization of the life of a young woman who was confirmed after suffering from a rare bone cancer for five and a half years. She barely made it down the aisle, and passed away nine days after confirmation. I had the privilege of talking with the stepfather of the deceased young woman. He and the woman's mother come up from Florida every year for this service. After service, an award is given to a deserving young man or woman of confirmation age that demonstrates many of the traits and qualities that made this young woman special.

The service also honors graduating high school students, all of whom are going on to college. The service emphasizes the transitions and growth in the life cycle.

What made this service especially meaningful for me was my deep roots in the community. I was Bar Mitzvahed in 1970. My father's death was mourned in the synagogue in 1973. The Rabbi married my mother and stepfather in 1974. The same Rabbi married my wife and I in 1991.

Aside from religion, what is created by religious worship is a deep sense of civil community. I believe that it is possible to believe in G-d or not to believe in G-d; either way, the collective experience is one for the ages.
The life itself as demonstrated in service accounts itself as spiritual activity as opposed to the naturalistic, and is a part of God.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 08:20 AM
 
Location: New York Area
15,909 posts, read 6,260,165 times
Reputation: 12375
Quote:
Originally Posted by overcastg4 View Post
The life itself as demonstrated in service accounts itself as spiritual activity as opposed to the naturalistic, and is a part of God.
Back to the subject matter of this thread.

That is quite true in the Jewish religion. Service is not a total substitute for "spiritual activity" but it goes a long way, since one lives on in their good deeds on earth, in heaven maybe not so much.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 01:07 PM
 
177 posts, read 37,600 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I held this post till tonight after sundown out of respect for my fellow Jews. I am posting it here rather than in the "Judaism" sub-forum since I believe it is of general applicability. However I am Jewish and the setting is a Reform Jewish service.

I just returned from Friday night services at my synagogue. The service was incredibly beautiful. The beauty of the service had little to do with whether or not G-d exists. The subject of the service was memorialization of the life of a young woman who was confirmed after suffering from a rare bone cancer for five and a half years. She barely made it down the aisle, and passed away nine days after confirmation. I had the privilege of talking with the stepfather of the deceased young woman. He and the woman's mother come up from Florida every year for this service. After service, an award is given to a deserving young man or woman of confirmation age that demonstrates many of the traits and qualities that made this young woman special.

The service also honors graduating high school students, all of whom are going on to college. The service emphasizes the transitions and growth in the life cycle.

What made this service especially meaningful for me was my deep roots in the community. I was Bar Mitzvahed in 1970. My father's death was mourned in the synagogue in 1973. The Rabbi married my mother and stepfather in 1974. The same Rabbi married my wife and I in 1991.

Aside from religion, what is created by religious worship is a deep sense of civil community. I believe that it is possible to believe in G-d or not to believe in G-d; either way, the collective experience is one for the ages.
I respect what you're saying, but it could be applied to literally any communal activity: "The value of being a Packers fan far supersedes ." "The value of attending Scientology meetings far supersedes ." "The value of being part of the JFK conspiracy community far supersedes ." And so on an so forth.

Religion is different only insofar as it purports to provide answers to ultimate metaphysical questions. It purports to have significance beyond the grave - in some cases, eternal consequences. This part of religion is of value only if it is ontologically TRUE. If a religion isn't TRUE in this sense, it's probably of far less value than being a Packers fan and may be positively dangerous.

I've known many Jews, including one of my best friends, who have precisely your attitude: The "religion" is all about history, tradition, community. (Indeed, Israel is one of the least religious - in the sense of believing - countries on earth.) My friend doesn't believe Judaism is true in the slightest. He holds a truly bizarre set of New Age beliefs I wouldn't even try to describe. Judaism is no more a religion for him than is being a Giants fan.

But again, any number of secular organizations, hobbies and activities could serve the same purpose. If you don't believe what your religion teaches about the ultimate metaphysical questions, then it really isn't functioning as a religion in your life.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Florida
4,509 posts, read 3,913,265 times
Reputation: 9902
Religion is not required for a sense of community. Nor is it required for acknowledging high school seniors, or any other person or group that has a milestone or achievement.

Religion has and still does draw a line between "us" and "them" - defining "us" by the shared belief of a particular flavor of religion. Religion creates division, and is a detriment to the "community" of humanity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,085 posts, read 54,565,498 times
Reputation: 66460
Quote:
Originally Posted by kab0906 View Post
Religion is not required for a sense of community. Nor is it required for acknowledging high school seniors, or any other person or group that has a milestone or achievement.

Religion has and still does draw a line between "us" and "them" - defining "us" by the shared belief of a particular flavor of religion. Religion creates division, and is a detriment to the "community" of humanity.
It CAN, and that sort of "us v them" division is indeed a detriment. But that's a deeper fact of human nature. Eliminating religion would not eliminate our need to divide, we would just find a different way to divide ourselves. Hutus and Tutsis ring a bell?

Further, it's too often those in authority or power who use the differences to drive a wedge between the usses and the thems for their own agendas.
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: http://www.city-data.com/terms.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 04:22 PM
 
40,066 posts, read 26,739,576 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
It CAN, and that sort of "us v them" division is indeed a detriment. But that's a deeper fact of human nature. Eliminating religion would not eliminate our need to divide, we would just find a different way to divide ourselves. Hutus and Tutsis ring a bell?

Further, it's too often those in authority or power who use the differences to drive a wedge between the usses and the thems for their own agendas.
Beliefs in religions imply divisions among us whereas a general belief that we are ALL the purposeful creation of some Entity should foster unity as long as we ELIMINATE any idea that our purpose is tied to the capricious whims and desires of our creator AS DEFINED AND INTERPRETED by any human. Our ignorance should not be a barrier to discovering what makes sense as the purpose of our creation. At the very least, it should identify that acting against or even killing one another for any reason can NOT be part of our purpose for existing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 04:28 PM
 
13,493 posts, read 4,996,362 times
Reputation: 1365
religion is like a graphic organizer.

its when people try and tell us "flow charts are the only true graphic organizer" that is a problem. I can't out law graphic organizer because some people behave badly. I feel talking about what the graphic organizer are describing is far better.

like you both pointed out, insightful people go to what in "The N-word" is being described. A "N-word" that includes us all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top