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Old 06-24-2019, 02:50 PM
 
177 posts, read 37,509 times
Reputation: 61

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
How could He be?
And so many will say the same thing, You don't understand. And shake their heads to themselves.

Well, I understand murder and savagery....I understand that like a friend said so well, (but I never put
it into these words...but now I will),
Blind faith, blind acceptance is from 'something', I will call the 'devil'.
I have skirted this before, but now I will join my friend and say...that even saying, 'God works in
mysterious ways', is also 'of the devil'.
(I have said often here, 'God is actually not mysterious at all'.)

The masses have been duped!
What a perfect trick. Sly as all get out.
Make people believe God is an angry, brutal murderer and accept it blindly, making up 'rational' excuses.
Make them believe it's all because God works in mysterious ways....then perform blood sacrifices
for Him...
thinking you're doing some 'good and holy thing'...when it's baloney.
(Not that in some books of the OT there is not wisdom....but the murderous, angry God
is not my Father that I know.)

Then, Jesus comes along to change everything...set us straight...'God is Love'...and all that that means.
No wonder atheists see Christianity as a blood cult.

And now I will be like an enemy to those that hold fast to the angry God, that could actually cast someone into an everlasting fire....Good Lord...I can hear it now a'comin'.
All because I see God as Love. And why do I?
Because of direct personal experience by His Grace....
not from stories in many books compiled based on fear and superstitions.

Talk amongst yourselves.
1. We have no idea what Perfect Holiness looks like or should look like. We have no understanding of what "jealously," "anger" and "wrath" (human terms to start with) might mean or look like in the context of Perfect Holiness. The transcendent mysteriousness of God permeates all the Jewish and Christian writings. "Your ways are not my ways, your thoughts are not my thoughts." - God Anyone who doesn't find God mysterious at all is worshipping a very small God.
2. God has no "obligation" to us. God is the Creator, we are the creatures. We can't judge God by the standards of how we think we "ought" to be dealt with or what "we would do if we were God." We have no idea as to how the reality we see and experience from our finite, extremely limited human perspective might look from the perspective of the Eternal Creator.
3. You express a one-dimensional (i.e., warm and fuzzy) view of Jesus. Read the Gospels again. Jesus was a compassionate but exceedingly non-warm and non-fuzzy guy who accepted the Jewish scriptures without reservation. We can't reimagine Jesus and claim the result is still the Jesus of the Gospels.
4. There is no disconnect between the God of the OT and the God of the NT. Jesus certainly didn't think there was. Christianity is a package. We can't jettison the OT as too icky to countenance and still call the religion Christianity. We can't cherry-pick the NT passages we like, flush the rest, and still call the religion Christianity.
I have no particular problem with a warm-and-fuzzy religion such as most New Agers follow. The problem is in appropriating the name of Jesus for a character who doesn't resemble the Jesus of the Gospels at all, flushing the OT, cherry-picking the NT, and then declaring the resulting religion Christianity.
If Christianity can be whatever we want it to be - to the extent of flushing the OT, cherry-picking the NT, and reimagining Jesus as someone other than the Jesus of the Gospels - the term loses all meaning. People don't do this with Buddhism, Islam or Hinduism, but for some reason Christianity is regarded as fair game.
Far more honest, I believe, is to say: "I reject Christianity, but I believe there is some sort of God who bears no resemblance to the angry God of the OT and I regard Jesus as a wonderful role model although I don't believe most of what he believed."
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Old 06-24-2019, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,263 posts, read 7,652,430 times
Reputation: 1718
The seriously weird idea of "perfect holiness" is used to excuse perfect viciousness by people who have no idea of the major shift in perception from "holiness" as apart from humanity to "dedicated to God's purpose in showing concern for others as basis for community with God and man. The sooner we realize this the sooner we can work together for the kingdom.

Better to say, "I reject the Old Testament perceptions of the nature of God and believe in the Spirit Jesus taught, demonstrated and promised to us for our guide."
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Old 06-24-2019, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,904 posts, read 14,232,069 times
Reputation: 16083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerfball View Post
You express a one-dimensional (i.e., warm and fuzzy) view of Jesus. Read the Gospels again. Jesus was a compassionate but exceedingly non-warm and non-fuzzy guy who accepted the Jewish scriptures without reservation.
No, he didn't.

Jesus never once quoted the Hebrew text. Jesus only quotes from the Greek text.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerfball View Post
There is no disconnect between the God of the OT and the God of the NT.
You're right about that. There's not much difference between the Divine Pyromaniac and the Divine Pyromaniac Junior.

“I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of its place.” Isaiah 13:13

Good luck finding food when that happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Or send your kids to school, or Boy Scouts or gymnastics.
Non-sequitur. None of those claim to have been called by a god, but nice attempt to obfuscate just the same.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:09 AM
 
13,493 posts, read 4,993,580 times
Reputation: 1365
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Or send your kids to school, or Boy Scouts or gymnastics.
one way to see a false profit is when they, or their followers, make us pledge allegiance to the person, not the ideas.

jesus saves

vs

love, compassion, and understanding saves.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:52 AM
 
13,493 posts, read 4,993,580 times
Reputation: 1365
Jimmie, jesus is a trinket.

a physical representation of an idea or a memory. all physical representations lesson the idea or memory due to the physicality.

the bible is a trinket of Jesus. two steps away, away, from the the notions in the book. others call it spirit, I call it information.

profits are trinkets of the book.
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Old 06-26-2019, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,375 posts, read 12,129,606 times
Reputation: 16623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
Jimmie, jesus is a trinket.
a physical representation of an idea or a memory. all physical representations lesson the idea or memory due to the physicality.
the bible is a trinket of Jesus. two steps away, away, from the the notions in the book. others call it spirit, I call it information.
profits are trinkets of the book.
I know you meant prophets....too early, no coffee?
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,467 posts, read 10,404,462 times
Reputation: 20312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
one way to see a false profit is when they, or their followers, make us pledge allegiance to the person, not the ideas.

jesus saves

vs

love, compassion, and understanding saves.
Now that is great post.

It is why I have said before that the wise thing for christians to do is that instead of arguing whether things in the bible are fact or fiction, they should start listing the principles of the New Testament and have their discussions about those principles -- do they work in the 21st century (from a practical standpoint), how do you incorporate them into your life, and so forth. As a book of fact I reject the New Testament. As a book of principles...I can see quite a bit of wisdom there.
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,375 posts, read 12,129,606 times
Reputation: 16623
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Now that is great post.

It is why I have said before that the wise thing for christians to do is that instead of arguing whether things in the bible are fact or fiction, they should start listing the principles of the New Testament and have their discussions about those principles -- do they work in the 21st century (from a practical standpoint), how do you incorporate them into your life, and so forth. As a book of fact I reject the New Testament. As a book of principles...I can see quite a bit of wisdom there.
Now that is a great post, my friend.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Mars City
5,091 posts, read 2,142,356 times
Reputation: 7505
Great topic.

I'm not prepared to say the God of the OT and NT aren't the same - and don't think anyone can say conclusively since it's beyond the limits of our awareness and complete discernment - but it does make one wonder. The difference in approach is radically clear.

I do propose that if they are the same, God could conceivably had a change of approach in mind. Another example might be going from dinosaurs to mankind. If he created dinosaurs and prehistoric life, he could have had a likewise change of mind and "heart", and decided to go in a completely different approach with mankind and generally smaller animals, etc. A change between the ways of the Old Testament and New might mark a similar "progression".

Regardless, and in the end, we have the choice to choose both (testaments and their approach), one or the other, or neither. It's a personal choice. No one can say that what works for them and makes sense to them, must apply to everyone. That's a fascist approach to life, spirituality, and the universe.

Let this thread sort out the tyrants of life and belief, from the free-thinkers who understand and respect how different we each are, with our own beliefs, own paths, own DNA, etc. If you think you're so smart, and that everyone needs to think as you, then you're full of "religion" in one form or another. Hardcore atheists are just as off-balanced and religious in approach as hardcore bible-thumpers.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 06-26-2019 at 09:16 AM..
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:39 AM
 
39,052 posts, read 10,837,135 times
Reputation: 5084
It's amazing how many people think that. I suspect that they don't see a difference between what one can verify and what one only believes. But I recognise the right of people to 'believe'. I just don't think it be regarded as equally valid as truth.
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