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Old 06-20-2019, 04:46 AM
 
13,493 posts, read 4,996,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
LOL.

Well, I'll tell you where I think christians get it all wrong.

1. They should stop trying to prove the bible. Forget it. Impossible. Even if there are tidbits here and there that are accurate, most isn't, and can't be proven even if it is. And, it's irrelevant whether the bible is "true" or not. That's where the faith aspect comes in.

2. Then they should relegate the Old Testament to the scholars. As you said, the "angry God, that could actually cast someone into an everlasting fire....Good Lord...I can hear it now a'comin'".

3. Next, they should start with the New Testament and make a list of the PRINCIPLES in the New Testament, discuss each principle thoroughly, and decide -- individually -- whether they can incorporate each principle into their lives. Is it a valid principle, or one that really doesn't pan out.

If they would do that, then I'd have some respect for them.
that sums it up pretty well.
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Old 06-20-2019, 04:51 AM
 
13,493 posts, read 4,996,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
How could He be?
And so many will say the same thing, You don't understand. And shake their heads to themselves.

Well, I understand murder and savagery....I understand that like a friend said so well, (but I never put
it into these words...but now I will),
Blind faith, blind acceptance is from 'something', I will call the 'devil'.
I have skirted this before, but now I will join my friend and say...that even saying, 'God works in
mysterious ways', is also 'of the devil'.
(I have said often here, 'God is actually not mysterious at all'.)

The masses have been duped!
What a perfect trick. Sly as all get out.
Make people believe God is an angry, brutal murderer and accept it blindly, making up 'rational' excuses.
Make them believe it's all because God works in mysterious ways....then perform blood sacrifices
for Him...
thinking you're doing some 'good and holy thing'...when it's baloney.
(Not that in some books of the OT there is not wisdom....but the murderous, angry God
is not my Father that I know.)

Then, Jesus comes along to change everything...set us straight...'God is Love'...and all that that means.
No wonder atheists see Christianity as a blood cult.

And now I will be like an enemy to those that hold fast to the angry God, that could actually cast someone into an everlasting fire....Good Lord...I can hear it now a'comin'.
All because I see God as Love. And why do I?
Because of direct personal experience by His Grace....
not from stories in many books compiled based on fear and superstitions.

Talk amongst yourselves.
How would my kid describe me through the stages of their lives?
An I the same person over time?
Do I treat them the exact same way through their stages?

and like phet pointed out. The god thing isn't so much the problem as what people are doing with what the bible says.

Christians need to dump the parts like a dude dying and rising for our despicable human self that his father made. they can replace them with some very responsible statements that would reflect a thoughts of a rational being we may be part of.
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Old 06-20-2019, 04:57 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,064 posts, read 940,916 times
Reputation: 715
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
It's pretty silly to see atheists arguing over texts that have very little to do with the faith.
No, it would be silly for us to argue over theology in those texts. But those texts are copies of historical documents that 1) allow us to study the history of the different Christian faiths, and 2) have an impact on how people live. And sometimes that impact is negative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The faith comes from God who sustains the faith, and most Christians have not even read the texts that some atheists spend their lives arguing about.

The texts are COMPLETELY meaningless without faith. Completely. 100%.

A Christian could have a deeply rich and fulfilled life without even once opening the book. He doesn't even need the book when he has a relationship with his creator.
Except the Christians know the basic stories told in that text. The faith is completely meaningless without the text, because the text is responsible for the faith.
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:14 AM
 
13,493 posts, read 4,996,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
It's pretty silly to see atheists arguing over texts that have very little to do with the faith. The faith comes from God who sustains the faith, and most Christians have not even read the texts that some atheists spend their lives arguing about.

The texts are COMPLETELY meaningless without faith. Completely. 100%.

A Christian could have a deeply rich and fulfilled life without even once opening the book. He doesn't even need the book when he has a relationship with his creator.
A Christian can have a deeply rich and fulfilled life without ever once repeating a man died and rise-ed for our sins. and still believe in something.


.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,379 posts, read 12,133,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
I'd buy that phetaroi. Unfortunately I can't "rep" you at the moment.
But, I did!
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,494 posts, read 10,408,804 times
Reputation: 20335
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
It's pretty silly to see atheists arguing over texts that have very little to do with the faith. The faith comes from God who sustains the faith, and most Christians have not even read the texts that some atheists spend their lives arguing about.

The texts are COMPLETELY meaningless without faith. Completely. 100%.

A Christian could have a deeply rich and fulfilled life without even once opening the book. He doesn't even need the book when he has a relationship with his creator.
Excuses, excuses, excuses. The average christian doesn't read the one book that defines the religion. The average christian doesn't go to church with any regularity whatsoever...to busy, too lazy, too _____.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,379 posts, read 12,133,948 times
Reputation: 16624
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
A Christian could have a deeply rich and fulfilled life without even once opening the book.
He doesn't even need the book when he has a relationship with his creator.

Mouth dropped...I am SO not used to reading things like this on City Data.

Why do you need the roadmap when you're already eating the ice cream in Disney World?

Quote:
Arach: A Christian can have a deeply rich and fulfilled life without ever once repeating
a man died and rise-ed for our sins. and still believe in something.
Oh you, too.

Last edited by Miss Hepburn; 06-20-2019 at 06:57 AM..
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,379 posts, read 12,133,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Excuses, excuses, excuses. The average christian doesn't read the one book that defines the religion. The average christian doesn't go to church with any regularity whatsoever...too busy, too lazy, too _____.
Well, I asked 9 of 10 people if they considered themselves Christian..."Yes".
Then I proceeded to ask them: Where do you think Colossians, Ephesians and Galatians are...Old Testament or New? They all said Old Testament.
The 10th is an atheist, ex Catholic...he knew!
Ya don't have to go to church to be a Christian, just sayin'...in fact, some Christians don't
wanna hang out with 'those people'.
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,494 posts, read 10,408,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Well, I asked 9 of 10 people if they considered themselves Christian..."Yes".
Then I proceeded to ask them: Where do you think Colossians, Ephesians and Galatians are...Old Testament or New? They all said Old Testament.
The 10th is an atheist, ex Catholic...he knew!
Ya don't have to go to church to be a Christian, just sayin'...in fact, some Christians don't
wanna hang out with 'those people'.
I'll tell you why I think christianity is in trouble. Let's take the average christian. So they spend more time studying the bible and going to church OR watching football on television (or some other pastime)? I at least give credit to one woman I know. She goes to church every Sunday and at certain times of the year does a small, weekly bible study group at her home (apparently about a dozen women). And more importantly, she lives her faith in the way that she treats people. (Ironically, just recently, her husband told me that he has "pretty much" become an atheist.) And in my life I have known a very few other christians who attend church regularly or do some other form of bible study, and who do good works based on their faith.

What about the rest of the christians I have known? My father's side of the family was very catholic. My grandmother went to mass multiple times a week. Her one daughter went to mass weekly and on holy days of obligation. The four sons went to church from occasionally to not at all. None of the sons or the daughter could have told you much at all about the bible, other than the really big, famous stories. And although they were basically people, none of them did works for people outside of the family, and frankly, that didn't have much to do about religion. Even my grandmother's regular attendance at mass was habitual rather than thinking. I remember the fit she had when masses started being in English, and even though I was only 16, I asked her why, when she couldn't have ever understood the masses in Latin. Her only response was, "That's just the way it's supposed to be". On my mother's side -- all christians (except my grandfather who had no religion). No one went to church more than twice a year (Christmas and Easter) except my grandmother, and for her it was more of a social obligation than anything actually religious.

For all too many christians, christianity is what they grew up in and a habit, rather than anything they study or live by. The foundation is crumbling.

And by the way, just to be fair, I can say similar about the Buddhists I know and most of the people of other faiths that I know.
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,379 posts, read 12,133,948 times
Reputation: 16624
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Hmmm
Jesus sets you straight by saying “God is love”.
Why then Jesus/Bible talk about hell and fire? Wasn’t it created by God?
I'm not ignoring your 2 questions. I'm not the one to ask.
I just dunno the answers, exactly....just as 'exactly' I can not say Hell exists, nor what Jesus
really said or what he may have meant.

(Rem I am not a Christian...and I am a 'cherry picker' when it comes to the Bible; not believing some things...not believing it all is God inspired....I read only the 'love parts' and the instructions of Jesus.
Drives Christians nuts. 'How can someone do that with their Holy Bible?' Well....it happens.
Better than throwing the whole thing out with the bath water!)😊

Scholars have debated Hell a lot, as you know, the Gehenna thing.
Is there rather a self created hellish place
...due to guilt and hatred, and vengeful, ugly, bitter, jealous, cruel thoughts,
at least, until they lift themselves out of that place, with help, seeing 'the Light'?
That's what I have read from quite a few different sources.
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