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Old 06-20-2019, 10:15 AM
Status: "Trump 2020-make liberals cry again" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
16,343 posts, read 8,890,323 times
Reputation: 1652

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The OT reveals how God feels about sin; the NT reveals how God feels about people.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:55 AM
 
3,633 posts, read 1,132,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
The OT reveals how God feels about sin; the NT reveals how God feels about people.
How did god feel about the people and babies of Amaekite?
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:30 PM
 
4,409 posts, read 1,639,451 times
Reputation: 1528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
I'm not ignoring your 2 questions. I'm not the one to ask.
I just dunno the answers, exactly....just as 'exactly' I can not say Hell exists, nor what Jesus
really said or what he may have meant.

(Rem I am not a Christian...and I am a 'cherry picker' when it comes to the Bible; not believing some things...not believing it all is God inspired....I read only the 'love parts' and the instructions of Jesus.
Drives Christians nuts. 'How can someone do that with their Holy Bible?' Well....it happens.
Better than throwing the whole thing out with the bath water!)��

Scholars have debated Hell a lot, as you know, the Gehenna thing.
Is there rather a self created hellish place
...due to guilt and hatred, and vengeful, ugly, bitter, jealous, cruel thoughts,
at least, until they lift themselves out of that place, with help, seeing 'the Light'?
That's what I have read from quite a few different sources.
The challenge with this philosophy is that why do we need Jesus then?
If there is no hell, and no consequences for our actions then the entire dogma of "Jesus died for your sins" goes out of the window.

So we are stuck in a catch 22 here.

1 - If Jesus has died for our sins and Jesus is the only way - then what happens to those who don't believe in Jesus IF there is no hell and no consequences for our bad actions?

2 - If there is hell and fire created by God, then what does it mean by "God is love"?
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,352 posts, read 12,114,801 times
Reputation: 16597
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
The OT reveals how God feels about sin; the NT reveals how God feels about people.
That was a pretty good explanation, actually...or rationale or fairytale or truth...it can be taken many ways.
I must say at one time I would have been impressed with that answer.
It seems like something taught in Sunday School when Bobbie raises his hand...and then
he simply 'accepts' that in blind faith...using no brain power to question it.
"But, God...what about....?"

Last edited by Miss Hepburn; 06-20-2019 at 01:43 PM.. Reason: rationale has an e
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:43 PM
Status: "Trump 2020-make liberals cry again" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
16,343 posts, read 8,890,323 times
Reputation: 1652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
That was a pretty good explanation, actually...or rational or fairytale or truth...it can be taken many ways.
I must say at one time I would have been impressed with that answer.
It seems like something taught in Sunday School when Bobbie raises his hand...and then
he simply 'accepts' that in blind faith...using no brain power to question it.
"But, God...what about....?"
Yeah, well Iím no longer 8 years old. Iím an educated adult who has studied the Bible for 50+ years. Personally, I think your question shows a lack of study and is just knee-jerk.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:03 PM
Status: "We The North" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,757 posts, read 13,399,507 times
Reputation: 11666
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Yeah, well Iím no longer 8 years old. Iím an educated adult who has studied the Bible for 50+ years. Personally, I think your question shows a lack of study and is just knee-jerk.
You fooled me.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:39 PM
 
40,039 posts, read 26,720,362 times
Reputation: 6047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
I'm not ignoring your 2 questions. I'm not the one to ask.
I just dunno the answers, exactly....just as 'exactly' I can not say Hell exists, nor what Jesus
really said or what he may have meant.

(Rem I am not a Christian...and I am a 'cherry picker' when it comes to the Bible; not believing some things...not believing it all is God inspired....I read only the 'love parts' and the instructions of Jesus.
Drives Christians nuts. 'How can someone do that with their Holy Bible?' Well....it happens.
Better than throwing the whole thing out with the bath water!)😊

Scholars have debated Hell a lot, as you know, the Gehenna thing.
Is there rather a self created hellish place
...due to guilt and hatred, and vengeful, ugly, bitter, jealous, cruel thoughts,

at least, until they lift themselves out of that place, with help, seeing 'the Light'?
That's what I have read from quite a few different sources.
Insightful ruminations, Miss H. Too many of us simply do not believe that what we create in our thoughts and feelings become part of who we really are. They really do think they are "fleeting." Sadly, they will have to deal with them because they are NOT "fleeting" and comprise their REAL Self. They are what is meant by reaping what we sow, NOT some God created Hell.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,352 posts, read 12,114,801 times
Reputation: 16597
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
The challenge with this philosophy is that why do we need Jesus then?
If there is no hell, and no consequences for our actions then the entire dogma of "Jesus died for your sins" goes out of the window.

So we are stuck in a catch 22 here.
1 - If Jesus has died for our sins and Jesus is the only way - then what happens to those who don't believe in Jesus IF there is no hell and no consequences for our bad actions?
2 - If there is hell and fire created by God, then what does it mean by "God is love"?
Excellent back and forth here, thank you. This is just between you and me.
First I can't ans #2...it's an "if'' question that for me means nothing, since I don't believe in 'hell fire'.

Everything else is the nail on the head, exactly: *"why do we need Jesus then?"...
*"The entire dogma of Jesus dying for your sins goes out the window."
Yes.

1. We never were closed out of Heaven, it was always right there for us...how could it ever have been closed? He's our Dad, we are part of HIM!
2. How could we have any sin? We are part of God Himself, His children, He made as He wanted us to be. Goofy, stupid, loving our senses...the works...in such a play ground called earth!


3. Is there good, is there bad in this dualistic world in this 3rd Dimension well, yes, here.
But, really all is just One. No duality in the Reality of timelessness, see ...God's Realm has no past, no future, only the Present Now.. there is no good or bad...everything simply 'Is.'

4. If there is no sin, what do we need a Savior for? From what? Good ques.
5. Were we ignorant, tho? to SO So so many things and, thus, living with suffering...so did we need a Teacher, extraordinaire? Yes.
6, Were we SO stuck in a concept, a paradigm believing only sacrifice could be of benefit? Yes...
Did this go on long enough? Yes.
So did someone have pity on us dweebs and give us something we could relate to to cut the paper chains to free us from ourselves?

Yes.
7. Did our Holy Father need or want this torturous, bloody sacrifice to happen? No....but that was all
we would understand
...we could not break the paper chains
of our own concepts, beliefs
that kept us out of the Kingdom ourselves.
8. Jesus' teachings are the way to the Father. Yes.
9. No thing or person can redeem you from something...you gotta do that yourself...You do your own atoning, atunement.
10, Jesus came here and lived for us, not died for any imaginary mistakes we were making over and over from sheer ignorance and habit.
However, besides showing us this place is not what we think it is by walking on water,
healing the blind,
turning into pure light...
he even showed us DEATH is not what we think it is.

He is the Way cuz of the example he was and the breadcrumbs we are to follow.
There need not be any threat of a hell....geeze, this idea of appeasing a God like virgins
in a volcano is SO antiquated and childish.

There is God, there we are, extensions of Him...and here we are, stupid, but still His beloved kids, looking in the wrong direction...and here comes our brother Jesus
to place his hand on our chin to nudge us to look in the right direction...at the Light that has always been available to us...He did point and so his way is meant to be followed...with no threats.

When we understand all this ...we love God MORE and Jesus MORE because we get the whole picture...WE were the dumb ones...WE strayed so far away from Home and Jesus and our Dad.
They figured out a way to get thru to us...and bring us back....even if they had to use our
own childish ideas to do it.

(Btw, there are a lot of us that know this now...I didn't just make this up, myself!)
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,352 posts, read 12,114,801 times
Reputation: 16597
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Yeah, well I’m no longer 8 years old. I’m an educated adult who has studied the Bible for 50+ years. Personally, I think your question shows a lack of study and is just knee-jerk.
Nope, it isn't...or else it's been jerkin this way for decades.

But remember I don't 'study' the Bible.
I cherry pick to the loving parts...and then put them to practice (not so easy I might add)
only to find out everything Jesus said to do here while on earth...WORKS!!!!
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:54 PM
 
40,039 posts, read 26,720,362 times
Reputation: 6047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Excellent back and forth here, thank you. This is just between you and me.
First I can't ans #2...it's an "if'' question that for me means nothing, since I don't believe in 'hell fire'.

Everything else is the nail on the head, exactly: *"why do we need Jesus then?"...
*"The entire dogma of Jesus dying for your sins goes out the window."
Yes.

1. We never were closed out of Heaven, it was always right there for us...how could it ever have been closed? He's our Dad, we are part of HIM!
2. How could we have any sin? We are part of God Himself, His children, He made as He wanted us to be. Goofy, stupid, loving our senses...the works...in such a play ground called earth!


3. Is there good, is there bad in this dualistic world in this 3rd Dimension well, yes, here.
But, really all is just One. No duality in the Reality of timelessness, see ...God's Realm has no past, no future, only the Present Now.. there is no good or bad...everything simply 'Is.'

4. If there is no sin, what do we need a Savior for? From what? Good ques.
5. Were we ignorant, tho? to SO So so many things and, thus, living with suffering...so did we need a Teacher, extraordinaire? Yes.
6, Were we SO stuck in a concept, a paradigm believing only sacrifice could be of benefit? Yes...
Did this go on long enough? Yes.
So did someone have pity on us dweebs and give us something we could relate to to cut the paper chains to free us from ourselves?

Yes.
7. Did our Holy Father need or want this torturous, bloody sacrifice to happen? No....but that was all
we would understand
...we could not break the paper chains
of our own concepts, beliefs
that kept us out of the Kingdom ourselves.
8. Jesus' teachings are the way to the Father. Yes.
9. No thing or person can redeem you from something...you gotta do that yourself...You do your own atoning, atunement.
10, Jesus came here and lived for us, not died for any imaginary mistakes we were making over and over from sheer ignorance and habit.
However, besides showing us this place is not what we think it is by walking on water,
healing the blind,
turning into pure light...
he even showed us DEATH is not what we think it is.

He is the Way cuz of the example he was and the breadcrumbs we are to follow.
There need not be any threat of a hell....geeze, this idea of appeasing a God like virgins
in a volcano is SO antiquated and childish.

There is God, there we are, extensions of Him...and here we are, stupid, but still His beloved kids, looking in the wrong direction...and here comes our brother Jesus
to place his hand on our chin to nudge us to look in the right direction...at the Light that has always been available to us...He did point and so his way is meant to be followed...with no threats.

When we understand all this ...we love God MORE and Jesus MORE because we get the whole picture...WE were the dumb ones...WE strayed so far away from Home and Jesus and our Dad.
They figured out a way to get thru to us...and bring us back....even if they had to use our
own childish ideas to do it.

(Btw, there are a lot of us that know this now...I didn't just make this up, myself!)
Beautifully explained, Miss H. It should reach many who are still mired in the confusions of this physical womb. You speak people speech.
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