U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-22-2019, 09:10 PM
 
808 posts, read 429,981 times
Reputation: 1811

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
That kind of "knowing" (without logical reason or referent) is what I mean when I say I "KNOW" this was NOT MY consciousness but I was ONE with it and with a multitude of consciousnesses. It is the existence of this consciousness that validates for me the concept of inspiration from God and it should be available to us all, NOT just special prophets.
I often read near death experience accounts and very commonly experiencers report similarly to what you have said here with their consciousness merging into a greater consciousness. They often report receiving insights and understanding remembering what they say they had temporarily forgotten while here as a human. It sounds like this is similar to your experience.

Your experience and the near death experiencers could be likened to a wave on the surface of reality (human) dissolving/merging back for a bit into the vaster ocean (Source/God/Universal Consciousness). My spiritual experience over the last decade and a half has been that in silencing the mind and dissolving the ego to some extent, I am able to experience something beyond 'the little me- human' as well.

Do you recall the insights you received in your state of merging?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-22-2019, 09:18 PM
 
40,034 posts, read 26,715,004 times
Reputation: 6047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe333 View Post
I often read near death experience accounts and very commonly experiencers report similarly to what you have said here with their consciousness merging into a greater consciousness. They often report receiving insights and understanding remembering what they say they had temporarily forgotten while here as a human. It sounds like this is similar to your experience.

Your experience and the near death experiencers could be likened to a wave on the surface of reality (human) dissolving/merging back for a bit into the vaster ocean (Source/God/Universal Consciousness). My spiritual experience over the last decade and a half has been that in silencing the mind and dissolving the ego to some extent, I am able to experience something beyond 'the little me- human' as well.

Do you recall the insights you received in your state of merging?
Yes, I do and they informed my subsequent 40+ year quest to try to understand the encounter using science so that my intellect would accept it as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2019, 09:54 PM
 
808 posts, read 429,981 times
Reputation: 1811
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Yes, I do and they informed my subsequent 40+ year quest to try to understand the encounter using science so that my intellect would accept it as well.
Generally speaking, what were the insights?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2019, 05:46 AM
 
13,450 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
that the imagine of god is the periodic table.

understanding what the PT would help.

we don't have to understand the bible too deep to realize literal thebiblegod isn't real.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2019, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,437 posts, read 10,385,168 times
Reputation: 20299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
that the imagine of god is the periodic table.

understanding what the PT would help.

we don't have to understand the bible too deep to realize literal thebiblegod isn't real.
"the imagine of god is the periodic table"

hmmmm
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2019, 12:08 PM
 
11,225 posts, read 11,251,267 times
Reputation: 3445
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
This is an interesting thought process.
If I were to assume for the sake of discussion that Jesus DID exit and he had a message from God, to try to find the answer to the question, "what was the original message of Jesus? (that now seem to have been miscegenated by the modern day Christian theology) - THEN - I just cannot ignore the existence of Holy men from God - BEFORE - Jesus.

I must try to find out what was message rendered by God through Moses, Abraham, and many many others who arrived before Jesus?

We wont perhaps be able to find the answer but to play this "game of probabilities" and take an attempt at a logical and scholarly guess then this is how I see it.

Through out the human history, we see a trend that tribes and nations and civilizations were born, risen and vanished when their time was up. This see to have happened all in almost corners of the world through out the history.

So the known (and the many unknown to us) prophets of God were sent to different nations and different tribes and different civilization with a message - and that message most likely was - there is only God, and worship only him (Monotheism) - and here are the boundaries of do's and dont's.

If this assumed to be true then why Jesus would've carried a message any different from the Holy men before him?
This is an excellent unbiased observation, Cardinal. I'd like to take a closer look at it and offer some thoughts:

Quote:
If I were to assume for the sake of discussion that Jesus DID exit and he had a message from God, to try to find the answer to the question, "what was the original message of Jesus? (that now seem to have been miscegenated by the modern day Christian theology) - THEN - I just cannot ignore the existence of Holy men from God - BEFORE - Jesus.
Let's assume Jesus existed. Right away we have to determine what kind of man was he? Was he the divine son of God? We'd need some pretty explosive evidence he was--like a hitherto unknown ancient sealed grave was discovered recently and scientists dated it to about the first half of the 1st century. Upon opening it and entering scientists found a blood-soaked linen lying on the stone slab. Scientists took samples, tested them and found that this blood contained only 22 chromosomes with the characteristic 23rd female Y chromosome instead of the usual 46, one containing an x chromosomes. Dozens of repeated tests by unbiased scientists turned up the same results over and over. That'd be pretty convincing evidence someone was divine. We wouldn't know if it was Jesus unless it had some sort of an etching in the stone "Jesus ben Joseph and Mary". That'd convince me pretty quick. Sadly we have nothing like this.

That only leaves Jesus an ordinary man who was either a sage, a Pharisee, a scribe, a shaman, a revolutionary zealot or an apocalyptic preacher or any combination of them. Whatever he was, it was serious enough to get him in front of a Roman tribunal and sentenced to crucifixion. That's as far as we can get. And a lot of that is speculation since we have no historic Roman or temple records that mention Jesus.

Did he have a message? Likely. it was either a message to live better "and here's now to do it" or it was a message of revolt against Rome if he was this anti-Rome revolutionary zealot preaching the overthrow of the Roman empire in Judea. The latter is more likely since Jesus likely did get crucified but the Romans didn't crucify religious nuts, they only crucified religious nuts who were preaching sedition against Rome.

Now you say you cannot denly holy men who were before Jesus. That means we have to delve into the Old Testament. There WERE holy men aka prophets who wrote a lot of weird sounding stuff. It's so opaque we don't know what it means. Here's where the scholars divide. Fundamentalist apologists are insistent these carefully chosen 360-odd passages predicts Jesus. Like "he was wounded for our transgressions and bruised for iniquities". The problem with this is "How do we prove the gospel writers didn't take these verses and fashion the crucifixion story around them? How do we prove the gospel writers didn't take Psalm 22 and lift the sentence,

"They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment." v.18

out of it and make up the story of the Roman guards saying, "Let us not tear his garment. Let us cast lots for it instead"? It's certainly feasible these weren't prophecies about Jesus at all, they were poetic text referring to people of the time and the Greek writers who wrote the gospels used them to try to prove they were predictions of a coming Messiah named Jesus.

Another problem is that none of the texts say, "This is about our future Messiah who will be born in 500 years and his name will be Jesus". Actually, the name given is Immanuel. Apologists try to get around this by saying, "Isaiah didn't really mean Jesus' real name would be Immanuel, they just used that to indicate the kind of man Jesus would be. Which just demonstrates apologists could wiggle out of any evidence you showed them that Jesus wasn't predicted in the Old Testament. I could take all 360 supposed "prophecies" of Jesus and show why they don't pertain to Jesus and a good apologist could contradict me and give me 360 half-baked reasons why they do. We've seen them do it before. I'd like to see a thread where all 360 "prophecies" are listed and then arguments prop and con are given. I'd be happy to be the con if we could a pro (Mike555, are you reading this? )

The best we can arrive at in trying to figure out if there is some coherency to references to a savior starting supposedly in Genesis 3:15 and going all the way to Malachi is to say that throughout Jewish history they were so oppressed and bullied by everybody around them that they began to dream of a Messiah who would free them from all these foreigners conquering them and make them the top dog over everybody else. And this is exactly what the prophecies of the Messiah would do:

"The idea that the Messiah was to be a great warrior is not only present in the Dead Sea scrolls. It can also be found in several Aramaic translations (targums) of the Bible, such as the following rendering of the Song of Hannah.
"The Lord shall shatter the adversaries who arose to do evil to His people; He shall blast them with a loud noise issuing from heaven. The Lord shall exact punishment from [the proverbial northern enemy] Gog and from the marauding armies of the nations who come with him from the ends of the earth. He shall give strength to His king and shall make great the kingdom of His Messiah."
https://www.livius.org/articles/reli...litary-leader/

Jesus fails at all the adjectives given by the Old Testament for their Messiah. That's why the early churchmen had to invent a new Messiah, one who wasn't this great military leader but a meek and humble servant. And then they had to find appropriate passages in the Old Testament to support their new version of this messiah, like "Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter" (Zechariah 13:7) Sounds like the part in the gospels where Jesus is arrested and the apostles flee, doesn't it? But that's only because we're so conditioned to believe this because we've heard it thousands of times. Take that bias away and we'd never associate Psalm 22 with Jesus. That's just how the Greek writers wrote the gospel story, scholars think, to reflect this verse. The part you never hear about from apologists is the last part of the verse:

"Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones." See that? God will bring harm to the little ones, the apostles. Now how does that happen?????? Unless the verse isn't about Jesus and the apostles at all.

I'll address the rest of your post later. This is already too long.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2019, 12:54 PM
 
13,450 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
Jesus failed to rise from the dead as they teach thrill.

literal Jesus is pointless. past saying that literal Christianity is pointless to jesus himself.

I think jesus would agree with Buddha when Buddha said "If you see me on the road after I died, kill me."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2019, 02:04 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,356 posts, read 7,012,684 times
Reputation: 4853

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67uj2qvQi_k



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCHJbO-3-jA
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2019, 02:32 PM
 
11,225 posts, read 11,251,267 times
Reputation: 3445
Lee Strobel, fundamentalist preacher who claimed to be an atheist who turned from atheism to Christianity, which makes him a liar for Jesus. snj, why don't you give us your viewpoints and/or comment on the evidence I present in OP or post #36 instead of just throwing propaganda videos at us?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2019, 02:33 PM
 
11,225 posts, read 11,251,267 times
Reputation: 3445
Lee Stroble liar


"How 'Case for Christ' author Lee Strobel fabricated his best-selling story"

Quote:
In reality, he was a lapsed Lutheran who became a pastor at a mega-church. It wasn’t until over a decade later—and after writing three books in defense of evangelical Christianity—he had the idea to select a line-up of Evangelical academics who support his view and lob softball questions at them, all under the guise of a “tough skeptic.”
https://www.alternet.org/2019/03/how...selling-story/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top