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Old 06-23-2019, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Haiku
4,056 posts, read 2,566,050 times
Reputation: 5973

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post

So people have no reason at all to fear they will go to hell and suffer eternally if they do not accept Jesus.
Jesus was a Jew and Judaism has no concept of Hell, so why would Jesus believe in something he has never heard of? You have to remember that Jesus was only trying to reform Judaism, not create a new religion. Most of the BS that makes up Christianity came from the Catholic marketing machine, starting with the Nicene convention in 325. Basically they voted on which of the many competing views they would adopt. What a farce, voting on what is supposed to be the word of God. Apparently God didn't attend any of ecumenical conventions to give his (or her) opinion.
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Old 06-23-2019, 03:00 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,356 posts, read 7,012,684 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Lee Strobel, fundamentalist preacher who claimed to be an atheist who turned from atheism to Christianity, which makes him a liar for Jesus.
I was also turned from atheism to Christianity. I guess you would call me a liar - but by my own experiences, I am obviously quite unpersuaded by your reasoning here.

Quote:
snj, why don't you give us your viewpoints and/or comment on the evidence I present in OP or post #36 instead of just throwing propaganda videos at us?
You are not owed the truth because you do not seek God in humility. Instead, I hope that what I have provided is useful for those who may be reading this thread and need genuine answers.
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Old 06-23-2019, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,437 posts, read 10,385,168 times
Reputation: 20299
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
I was also turned from atheism to Christianity. I guess you would call me a liar - but by my own experiences, I am obviously quite unpersuaded by your reasoning here.



...
As we are in yours.
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Old 06-23-2019, 03:34 PM
 
11,225 posts, read 11,251,267 times
Reputation: 3445
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
I was also turned from atheism to Christianity. I guess you would call me a liar - but by my own experiences, I am obviously quite unpersuaded by your reasoning here.
I don't doubt you had some mystical experience or hallucination that caused you to believe Jesus was still alive. But it was all in your head. Unless you were able to capture this visitation from Jesus on video or something. Offer us some concrete evidence. I know, I know, I need faith to believe that what you saw was real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
You are not owed the truth because you do not seek God in humility. Instead, I hope that what I have provided is useful for those who may be reading this thread and need genuine answers.
You may feel I'm not owed the truth, that's fine. I get this thrown at me constantly by Christians who haven't a shred of proof to offer, so they just say I don't deserve it. It's an easy cop-out that Christians always use when cornered. But don't you think the other skeptics here are owed some proof besides testimony from proven liars like Lee Strobel? Or are you here just to preach to the choir, in which case you're in the wrong forum. The one you want where everyone will agree with you is the Christianity forum.
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Old 06-23-2019, 05:11 PM
 
13,450 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
Jesus was a Jew and Judaism has no concept of Hell, so why would Jesus believe in something he has never heard of? You have to remember that Jesus was only trying to reform Judaism, not create a new religion. Most of the BS that makes up Christianity came from the Catholic marketing machine, starting with the Nicene convention in 325. Basically they voted on which of the many competing views they would adopt. What a farce, voting on what is supposed to be the word of God. Apparently God didn't attend any of ecumenical conventions to give his (or her) opinion.
excellent post.
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Old 06-23-2019, 05:13 PM
 
13,450 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
I was also turned from atheism to Christianity. I guess you would call me a liar - but by my own experiences, I am obviously quite unpersuaded by your reasoning here.



You are not owed the truth because you do not seek God in humility. Instead, I hope that what I have provided is useful for those who may be reading this thread and need genuine answers.
if you teach that jesus literally rose from the dead for our sins, when it did not happen, you may not be a liar.
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,332,182 times
Reputation: 2610
LMAO! Lee Strobel. Liar for Jesus. Ye gods!!

A self-proclaimed 'tough investigative journalist' that ignores the very life-blood of investigative journalism, by only interviewing those that agree with him.

Here you are snj90 (not that you'll read it)

http://www.bidstrup.com/apologetics.htm

This book consists largely of "interviews" of prominent Christian apologists - no secular scholars of any note, just apologists. Written in a narrative style, designed for easy, laid-back reading that is familiar to readers of apologetic literature, it is intended to build a case that the historical record of the New Testament is accurate and believable. Its case is most powerfully made to those who already accept unquestioningly the authority of the gospels. In this sense, it is really preaching to the choir. For the rest of us, the author tries to get us hooked by demonstrating that authority early on - right in the first part of the book, in fact.

The book is very cleverly crafted. It is often claimed by the proponents of this book that the author wrote it when he was an atheist, and was undergoing the conversion process. This is not true. From a careful reading (see the last two paragraphs at the bottom of page 14), he makes it quite clear that he wrote it as a fully committed Christian, "retracing" his spiritual path an indeterminate period of time after the fact. As such, it is yet another ordinary piece of apologetic axe-grinding.

Last edited by Rafius; 06-23-2019 at 11:14 PM..
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Old 06-24-2019, 03:18 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,028 posts, read 932,188 times
Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Lee Strobel only asked Christians for 'evidence', so is hardly an unbiased look at the question. And his claim to be open minded is not to be trusted considering his story about his research is suspicious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
J Warner Wallace claims to use police methods he learned as a policeman in his study of Jesus, but his methods are so bad, he must have sent many innocent men to prison. He starts with the belief that the gospels are accurate eye witness accounts, therefore his whole argument is the begging the question fallacy.

He also has to ignore evidence by relevant professionals, which is not how you do history or police work.
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Old 06-24-2019, 03:20 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,028 posts, read 932,188 times
Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
You are not owed the truth because you do not seek God in humility. Instead, I hope that what I have provided is useful for those who may be reading this thread and need genuine answers.
You do not have genuine answers, even though you believe you do. You are not owed the truth because you do not seek the truth.
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Old 06-24-2019, 05:12 AM
 
13,450 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
my mom watches EWTN ... insistently. If you get my meaning.

As I was watching I couldn't help but think ... They made the stuff up as they went along.
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