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Old 06-26-2019, 06:17 PM
Status: "We The North" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,749 posts, read 13,395,224 times
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JWs are Christianity's lemmings.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,954 posts, read 22,094,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
If they use well-documented sources, no reason to outright reject it. One also can't discount all experiences that happen to a person.
Right, but a lot of things in a "memoir" of this sort are entirely subjective and really can't be documented. Also, one person's perspective may not be particularly representative of the perspective of the majority of people who have a similar experience. I wouldn't "outright reject it." I'd take it for what it was -- one person's experience, colored through the lens that one person saw the experience through.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:57 PM
 
Location: minnesota
6,331 posts, read 2,115,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerfball View Post
Yes, the JW were founded on the notion of an imminent return of Jesus. When a couple of dates failed to pan out, they decided that he had returned invisibly (i.e., begun to reign in Heaven) in 1914 and would return visibly before the generation living in 1914 had passed away. So they are fast running out of time for that to occur and may be due for another major theological revision if it doesn't happen pretty soon. Things like that are what would keep me from pretending to be a JW.

However, time and again I have reached my own conclusions on an issue and learned to my surprise that it's exactly what the JW teach. There is scarcely anywhere within Orthodoxy, Catholicism or Protestantism that one doesn't encounter doctrines that I at least regard as "kinda goofy" and am unwilling to pretend to believe. So I go my own way as a veritable Christian potpourri, diligently studying theology and piecing together the version of Christianity that seems most correct to me.

On many Christian sites, one finds threads to the effect "DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE JW BELIEVE???" I then research the issue and find that, no, that's not what the JW believe at all. What they believe is often perfectly orthodox. One of my little missions is defending the JW against this sort of mindless slander.

Armageddon - or at least the Rapture, End Times, etc. - permeates almost all evangelical thinking. I share many of the views without letting it become an obsession. By their theology, the JW are pretty much forced to emphasize the imminence of The End. They do discourage college in favor of witnessing. Indeed, they discourage almost everything in favor of witnessing. But I have found them to be uniformly sincere and wonderful people for whom I have the highest respect.
I was raised a JW. I agree that they are very sincere and most are motivated by a genuine desire to help others. I used to respect them very much but as I've progressed in my healing I find it hard to respect people who don't have the capacity to ask themselves the all important question of "What if I'm the one in the wrong?" I don't just limited that to them or even religion.
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Old 06-26-2019, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,954 posts, read 22,094,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I used to respect them very much but as I've progressed in my healing I find it hard to respect people who don't have the capacity to ask themselves the all important question of "What if I'm the one in the wrong?" I don't just limited that to them or even religion.
That question is vitally important, and I've found that JWs seem to be the least inclined of all religious people to be willing to address it. I'm speaking from multiple experiences of interacting with them on various forums. If you can't be willing to at least admit that there's a possibility that you're wrong, I don't want to even try talking to you. I'm all for people who have strong convictions (I'm one of them), but it is absolutely preposterous to refuse to admit that you might be wrong.
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Old 06-26-2019, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Southern California
23,633 posts, read 8,219,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
I listened to part 1 of a podcast last week on it, and I've got another podcast now on my ipad waiting for a listen. Interesting stuff. PM me for the name of the podcast if you're interested. I'm afraid it's likely a rules violation to reveal the name of it.
Thanks I don't do podcasts, keep my tech world as simple as I can to get along. Learn plenty on NPR.
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:27 PM
 
5,931 posts, read 1,696,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Right, but a lot of things in a "memoir" of this sort are entirely subjective and really can't be documented. Also, one person's perspective may not be particularly representative of the perspective of the majority of people who have a similar experience. I wouldn't "outright reject it." I'd take it for what it was -- one person's experience, colored through the lens that one person saw the experience through.
Many people on this forum consider you to be an expert based on your memories and your first-hand knowledge of the LDS church. Why should we not give others the same courtesy? Even if they disagree with you?
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,954 posts, read 22,094,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Many people on this forum consider you to be an expert based on your memories and your first-hand knowledge of the LDS church. Why should we not give others the same courtesy? Even if they disagree with you?
I think my post that you quoted pretty much answers that question. If a Jehovah's Witness were to say, "JWs believe [such and such] and if a Catholic were to say, "JWs believe [such and such]," I'd take the JW's word as fact. Nobody knows a religion better than one of its own adherents.

On the other hand, when someone leaves a religion (and it doesn't matter in the slightest which one), his perspective is likely to be pretty strongly biased against the religion. Otherwise, he wouldn't have left in the first place. That's why I say that memoirs about leaving a church are not always the more accurate explanation of what the church's actual beliefs are. It would, however, likely be a good narrative of one person's experience. It would express his dissatisfaction for the church, but wouldn't necessarily be representative of how the majority of the religion's adherents feel.
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Old 07-01-2019, 10:59 PM
 
Location: California USA
918 posts, read 624,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
I skimmed it...good for her...ha, to thing Armagedon would be someone's focus...
new to me.
What is the source about the end of times

"From that time on, Jesus began preaching and saying: “Repent, for the Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.”-Matthew 4:17

"Our Father which art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy name, Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven...." -Matthew 6:9

“I must tell the Good News about God’s kingdom...this is why I was sent.” Luke 4:43

"... this Good News of the Kingdom must be preached as a witness to all the nations and then the end will come."-Matthew 24:14

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent: Because he has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; whereof he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead. -Acts 17:30:31

Christ, the apostles including Paul all taught the time was short. So if some feel JWs are excessively focused on the end of times we are in good company.

The reality is I am a JW and I do keep in mind that the "Kingdom of the Heavens" will come one day. In addition to, however imperfectly, attempting to follow Christ's footsteps I also live, laugh, mourn, pay my bills, work, have hobbies, raised my kids, and go about my everyday life like normal human beings do. This also applies to a great many JWs.
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:03 PM
 
Location: California USA
918 posts, read 624,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
JWs are Christianity's lemmings.
More JW bashing.
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:11 PM
 
5,931 posts, read 1,696,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I think my post that you quoted pretty much answers that question. If a Jehovah's Witness were to say, "JWs believe [such and such] and if a Catholic were to say, "JWs believe [such and such]," I'd take the JW's word as fact. Nobody knows a religion better than one of its own adherents.
So we should believe the memoirs.
Quote:
On the other hand, when someone leaves a religion (and it doesn't matter in the slightest which one), his perspective is likely to be pretty strongly biased against the religion. Otherwise, he wouldn't have left in the first place. That's why I say that memoirs about leaving a church are not always the more accurate explanation of what the church's actual beliefs are. It would, however, likely be a good narrative of one person's experience. It would express his dissatisfaction for the church, but wouldn't necessarily be representative of how the majority of the religion's adherents feel.
Now you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You're willing to believe one, but not the other.

Why? Because you seem to believe you can judge motive.
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