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Old 07-05-2019, 03:20 PM
 
Location: California USA
918 posts, read 624,105 times
Reputation: 279

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A different perspective. I wasn't raised as a JW. I was Catholic and as a Catholic I didn't have a choice being baptized. I was baptized as an infant and included in the membership roll of the Church.

Becoming a JW is not an overnight process and there are no infant baptisms. You study the Bible, attend meetings and go door to door. There's a process before you commit. Before you commit there is no doubt you know the doctrines and you know the teachings.

I don't know and neither does anyone else with certainty know what happened in every individuals disfellowshipping as that will rest with the folks who were disfellowshipped. I can just give my perspective on the ones who felt they were about to be disfellowshipped (in which they assumed correctly) and those who were reinstated Uniformly, they were warned repeatedly. However, they kept up the practice of what they were doing and either lied about it, kept it secret, or felt justified. Those who are reinstated admit what they did was a mistake but they either couldn't make the change at that time in their lives or felt the advantages of pursuing their own choice outweighed the consequences of their action. It hurts like heck when someone is disfellowshipped. There's no joy, no contentment, just a void. Conversely when your friend finds their way back it really is like the Prodigal Son.
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Old 07-05-2019, 03:25 PM
Status: "Summertime, and the living's easy" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: The Eastern Shore
2,047 posts, read 581,316 times
Reputation: 1108
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
A different perspective. I wasn't raised as a JW. I was Catholic and as a Catholic I didn't have a choice being baptized. I was baptized as an infant and included in the membership roll of the Church.

Becoming a JW is not an overnight process and there are no infant baptisms. You study the Bible, attend meetings and go door to door. There's a process before you commit. Before you commit there is no doubt you know the doctrines and you know the teachings.

I don't know and neither does anyone else with certainty know what happened in every individuals disfellowshipping as that will rest with the folks who were disfellowshipped. I can just give my perspective on the ones who felt they were about to be disfellowshipped (in which they assumed correctly) and those who were reinstated Uniformly, they were warned repeatedly. However, they kept up the practice of what they were doing and either lied about it, kept it secret, or felt justified. Those who are reinstated admit what they did was a mistake but they either couldn't make the change at that time in their lives or felt the advantages of pursuing their own choice outweighed the consequences of their action. It hurts like heck when someone is disfellowshipped. There's no joy, no contentment, just a void. Conversely when your friend finds their way back it really is like the Prodigal Son.
So you guys protect the pedophiles in your ranks, but disfellowship people who do horrible things like listen to rock music or celebrate anything, and make them admit it was wrong before allowing them back. Yea, makes total sense. 100%...
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Old 07-05-2019, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,437 posts, read 10,385,168 times
Reputation: 20299
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's View Post
Which is the correct view, in this case at least.
And then we get to your post #50.
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Old 07-05-2019, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,000 posts, read 54,493,040 times
Reputation: 66344
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
In the OT God commanded them to be stoned to death.
God didn't command squat. That was a rule made by men. You REALLY think the God you believe in would actually require parents to kill their children by throwing stones at them until they DIED? That doesn't seem flat-out SICK to you? That could only come from a human mind.

But let's move on to the next statement...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Why would you choose that for one of your family members over shunning? See you do not think clearly. They could still live to repent if only shunned and not killed. Gods will is what occurs over mortal will. It hurts the shunners just as much as it hurts the shunnee, brought on by the shunnee, yet they are always pointing the finger elsewhere.
How about NEITHER, JW? How about we neither murder our children NOR shun them? How about we actually do what we can to make our children know they are safe and loved by their parents?

Exactly who here is not thinking clearly?
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,000 posts, read 54,493,040 times
Reputation: 66344
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Thank you for reminding us all of how JWs "think."
The bizarre thing is that he thinks he's normal. He will argue with you because he honestly believes what he has been told is the way things are.

When I was working for the company owned by the Hasidic Jews, there was a JW there with whom I shared an office for a while. She was a nice enough person, but she sat there one day telling a Hasidic Jewish woman how her name was a Hebrew name from the Bible that meant thus and so.

The Hasidic woman said, um, no, your name does not appear anywhere in the Bible and it doesn't meant anything in Hebrew. The JW kept telling her she was wrong. Arguing with this Hasidic woman who was a daughter of Israeli immigrants, who had been raised reading and writing Hebrew from childhood, who had been educated in Jewish private schools all her life, telling her that she was wrong because her parents had told her something different.

It was bizarre, but also somewhat interesting to watch how someone's mind could be trained to be closed off to new information in that manner.
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:08 PM
 
Location: minnesota
6,331 posts, read 2,115,480 times
Reputation: 2168
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
More like keeping a flicker of freedom alive in a darkened world

Educate yourself. There are religious groups and atheists who use the legal processes to remove religious monuments from public lands, Biblical references from court houses, restricting the rights of gays to marry (an example, California's Proposition 8). These are anti-x,y,z. JWs instead use their resources and time to protect our liberties. The resultant court victories often times benefit other groups even those who don't share our beliefs.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-s...ling-witnesses

Excerpts from the above article:

"Of course, there are lots of messages we'd rather not see or hear. Consider highway billboards. Gay pride parades in southern states are about as popular as Mormon jubilees in northern California. Yet each deserves constitutional protection because they mean something to someone. Isn't that the point of a marketplace of ideas? Every opinion gets its fair hearing."

"Think of the activities of Jehovah's Witnesses as a necessary annoyance for living in a free society. After all, how we treat Jehovah's Witnesses only foreshadows what others will face when they have something unpopular to say."
The Watchtower could give 2 craps about those types of things. As far as they are concerned the Christians that put those Bible verses on building are ruled by Satan just like the government of the buildings they are on. If there were prayer in schools the witness children would not be allowed to participate because that would be interfaith. I am shunned because I celebrate Christmas. I haven't even converted to another religion but by the mere fact that I buy presents for the girls and put up a tree that is too close to wickedness. The Watchtower is all about religious freedom for them only. Grow up and leave and a person runs the risk of getting shunned by their JW relatives.
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:16 PM
 
Location: minnesota
6,331 posts, read 2,115,480 times
Reputation: 2168
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
In the OT God commanded them to be stoned to death. Why would you choose that for one of your family members over shunning? See you do not think clearly. They could still live to repent if only shunned and not killed. Gods will is what occurs over mortal will. It hurts the shunners just as much as it hurts the shunnee, brought on by the shunnee, yet they are always pointing the finger elsewhere.
Thank you. I can't find the reference for that one to prove the Watchtower said that but he's right. I don't like to put words in the Watchtowers mouth that I can't back up. The OT calls for apostates to be stoned to death by their own parents. The reason the Watchtower gives for not following that as modern day Christians is because it's against the law and they are to remain in subjection to secular authority whenever possible (laws that don't conflict with what the Watchtower says to do). If it was lawful to kill your child for leaving they would probably tell people to do it. Personally I feel the real reason is because it would get them sued or shut down. I think this because accepting a blood transfusion used to get you disfellowshipped. Now it means you have automatically dissociated yourself which results in the same treatment but it means it was your choice to leave and not that you got kicked out. Probably some legal move.
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:26 PM
 
Location: minnesota
6,331 posts, read 2,115,480 times
Reputation: 2168
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's View Post
So you guys protect the pedophiles in your ranks, but disfellowship people who do horrible things like listen to rock music or celebrate anything, and make them admit it was wrong before allowing them back. Yea, makes total sense. 100%...
If a child is sexually assaulted and grows up and tries to leave because the pedophile stays in good standing within the congregation they will be shunned.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_6SYNPwQ6o
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,954 posts, read 22,094,309 times
Reputation: 10687
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
In the OT God commanded them to be stoned to death. Why would you choose that for one of your family members over shunning? See you do not think clearly. They could still live to repent if only shunned and not killed. Gods will is what occurs over mortal will. It hurts the shunners just as much as it hurts the shunnee, brought on by the shunnee, yet they are always pointing the finger elsewhere.
Well, if shunning hurts both those who are shunned and those who are doing the shunning, perhaps it's not the best way to handle the situation. Hypothetically, if I were to leave a church (the JWs or any other one), I would be a whole lot more likely to "repent" and return to the fold, so to speak, if I were NOT being shunned. Shunning, IMO, is just a way to ensure that the ties of fellowship are broken for good.
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:33 PM
 
4,229 posts, read 1,623,528 times
Reputation: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
God didn't command squat. That was a rule made by men. You REALLY think the God you believe in would actually require parents to kill their children by throwing stones at them until they DIED? That doesn't seem flat-out SICK to you? That could only come from a human mind.

But let's move on to the next statement...



How about NEITHER, JW? How about we neither murder our children NOR shun them? How about we actually do what we can to make our children know they are safe and loved by their parents?

Exactly who here is not thinking clearly?

Gods view is all that counts in the end.( John 5:30, Matthew 7:21) God is the only one handing out life eternal in his kingdom.
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