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Old 07-14-2019, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,774 posts, read 4,982,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Not that; Paul just says that 500+ of the disciples saw the resurrected Jesus all together (I Cor. 15.6). That's it.
Using the word for having a vision.

And the 500 may actually be a correction for Pentecost, as the Greek is almost identical. If that is the case, and if Acts is using an account of this vision at Pentecost, we do not see a risen Jesus.

Chapter 2
1 When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.

And as Paul is using the same Greek word for the apostles, did they also have similar visions?
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:31 AM
 
13,011 posts, read 13,047,890 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Using the word for having a vision.

And the 500 may actually be a correction for Pentecost, as the Greek is almost identical. If that is the case, and if Acts is using an account of this vision at Pentecost, we do not see a risen Jesus.

Chapter 2
1 When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.

And as Paul is using the same Greek word for the apostles, did they also have similar visions?
New info to me. Thanks.

I have always thought that the claim of 500 witnesses was weak, but with the additional info the two of you have provided, I now rate the claim as pathetically weak.
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Old 07-14-2019, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,809 posts, read 24,321,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Not that; Paul just says that 500+ of the disciples saw the resurrected Jesus all together (I Cor. 15.6). That's it.
I'm thinking of it as in court. A defendant or complainant doesn't just get to say "There were lots of witnesses". He has to actually produce them.
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:47 AM
 
12,918 posts, read 16,865,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Not that; Paul just says that 500+ of the disciples saw the resurrected Jesus all together (I Cor. 15.6). That's it.
It's too bad isn't it? Because I'm sure that a list of names would have been enough to satisfy you guys.
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Old 07-14-2019, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Canada
2,962 posts, read 863,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I'm thinking of it as in court. A defendant or complainant doesn't just get to say "There were lots of witnesses". He has to actually produce them.
The significance of the claim is that he made the claim while many of these eyewitnesses were still alive and could easily be called upon to confirm what he was claiming.

You think he was bluffing and hoping that everyone would just take his word for it? That would be unreasonable to assume.

Christianity spread like wildfire at the very beginning in large measure because so many people were eyewitnesses to the resurrection Jesus. It was because of how impacted people were that Christianity have spread so rapidly at that time. Someone coming back from the dead was not something they were accustomed to. Also, the message and accounts from that event included all the important details. It was not something that evolved over time.
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Old 07-14-2019, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,809 posts, read 24,321,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew View Post
The significance of the claim is that he made the claim while many of these eyewitnesses were still alive and could easily be called upon to confirm what he was claiming.

You think he was bluffing and hoping that everyone would just take his word for it? That would be unreasonable to assume.

Christianity spread like wildfire at the very beginning in large measure because so many people were eyewitnesses to the resurrection Jesus. It was because of how impacted people were that Christianity have spread so rapidly at that time. Someone coming back from the dead was not something they were accustomed to. Also, the message and accounts from that event included all the important details. It was not something that evolved over time.
I don't give a flying fig what some people were convinced of 2,000+ years ago. They may very well have all been conspiracy thinkers of their time.

What have you got to show me NOW?
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Old 07-14-2019, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Canada
2,962 posts, read 863,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I don't give a flying fig what some people were convinced of 2,000+ years ago. They may very well have all been conspiracy thinkers of their time.

What have you got to show me NOW?

What is the oldest evidence you would accept as valid?
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Old 07-14-2019, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,809 posts, read 24,321,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew View Post
What is the oldest evidence you would accept as valid?
That would depend on the "evidence" and who the "witnesses" were.
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Old 07-14-2019, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew View Post
.

Christianity spread like wildfire at the very beginning in large measure because so many people were eyewitnesses to the resurrection Jesus.
Please identify a single eyewitness to the supposed resurrection. In Mathew and Mark, Mary Magdalene and Mother Mary arrive to find the tomb is empty. Luke says that the "women who accompanied Jesus" arrived and found the tomb empty. John has Mary Magdalene arriving alone and finding the tomb empty.

Now, if I arrived at a bank and found the vault empty, does that make me an eyewitness to the robbery? Does that mean I know with certainty how the money was removed?

So, you begin with a lie. Not even your sacred texts suggest that there was a witness to the resurrection. Haven't you read these things?

And Christianity spread because it was a doctrine which told the least fortunate members of the Roman world that if they believed, all would be reversed in the ill defined "Kingdom of Heaven" where the first will be last and the last will be first. That fairy tail had a tremendous appeal to slaves and lower class citizens within the empire, they had zero hope of improving their lives while alive, so a Pie in the Sky afterlife promised some hope, that one day things would be better. Christianity was a religion which went up in its first several Centuries, popular with the lowest classes and eventually catching on with some in the higher classes.

Then it was transformed into a religion going down, imposed upon everyone at swordpoint by the upper classes.

That Christianity became the most popular religion in western civilization is no more proof of its validity than is the fact that Islam became the most popular religion in Middle eastern civilization.
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Old 07-14-2019, 02:54 PM
 
13,011 posts, read 13,047,890 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew View Post
The significance of the claim is that he made the claim while many of these eyewitnesses were still alive and could easily be called upon to confirm what he was claiming.

You think he was bluffing and hoping that everyone would just take his word for it? That would be unreasonable to assume.
Why do you think that? Have you not read the news? Don’t you see the ludicrous claims made by our government, contrary to video evidence, and they assume that people will believe it? And roughly 42% of the population does.

Sadly, making bold assertions sometimes works. It seems to have done so for Paul.
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