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Canary, I am an agnostic deist. I believe there's something out there.
I had an epiphany a few days ago. I realized clearly for the first time that everything Jesus said in the gospels was written by Greek anonymous writers writing the gospels 70-100 years after Jesus died. They had no records of what Jesus said. They couldn't interview any witnesses who heard Jesus because the witnesses were all dead. Plain and simple, everything you read Jesus saying in the gospels was made up by the Greek scholars writing the gospels a century later. As authority, then Jesus words are WORTHLESS. So there's no need to worry about going to hell if you don't believe in Jesus because all of it was invented by churchmen with their own agenda to push and their agenda was they wanted to terrify people into accepting Jesus so they invented the worst kind of eternal punishment they could think of. It's all crap. You don't have to believe in Jesus anymore. You're free.
It's tough. I am stuck in this place where I am conflicting with myself: history/facts/knowledge vs what I've always believed or at least tried to believe/the culture I grew up in. It's like two parts of me are debating with each other. On Saturday I might be convinced that the belief system I grew up with is mostly non-sense; but the next morning I go to church because it's the right thing to do and a sin not to go. Then I sit there and wonder if people even hear themselves droning on and then I start thinking of Eddie Izzard's jokes about Christian singing (seriously, I do). Every week I go to church and before hand I kneel and pray for some insight, for more faith, etc. But instead I am being pulled the opposite direction.
There is another thread on hell in this forum that I've been reading (but haven't chimed in on). The first post makes a lot of sense to me. It appeals to the logical side of myself. I know the facts that poster presents are true (who wrote the gospels and when). But it's hard to shake decades of having it drilled into my mind that there is a hell. I will just keep reading and thinking about that too I suppose.
I really don't expect anyone to tell me what to do. I am just trying to figure out what I want to do, where my own mind is leading me. But for me, I find a lot of value in learning from the actions of others and their experiences. It gives me different perspectives to better analyze my own situation. So thank you for input provided so far, no matter what your answer.
I like what phetaroi said. Has good point.
You looking for living word in dead organizations that moved away from it.
I do not believe you will find peace anywhere you go to, as it will still be organized religion. Dead body.
Look, sounds like you have the spark in you. Unfortunately, that spark can not be quenched with anything from the outside, only from the inside.
You need to look inside of you. It's called meditation. Only inside you will find your-Self. And then all answers will come - and disappear, as you will learn that all the questions were just silly mind games, leading to silly answers that have no substance in them anyway.
Until you find you in your-Self - there will be no peace, this life or another.
I am just trying to figure out what I want to do, where my own mind is leading me.
You just proved my point.
There is only one caveat to that though. Where my own mind is leading me. Absolutely true. Thing being though, you are not your mind. Mind is servant that became master and master forgot that it even exists, led by mind.
Your task is one and one only - to uncover master and set mind aside, to where it belongs. As Sadhguru said - I am here, and mind is over there.
There is a lot of space between Catholicism and agnosticism.
If Lutheran and Episcopalian churches aren't your cup of tea, there are LOTS of other denominations to try out. It would mean a big change from your Catholic background, but my husband and my mother are both former Catholics who have found faith and a church family in other (very liberal protestant) denominations.
It took us years to find the right fit. We weren't "church shopping" so much as we were really looking into ourselves and identifying what we believed and why, what that meant for our life and parenting, etc., and that process was a long, tricky one (that is ever ongoing). Eventually we found the right place for us, but it was a tough, emotional process that continues to challenge us.
There is another thread on hell in this forum that I've been reading (but haven't chimed in on). The first post makes a lot of sense to me. It appeals to the logical side of myself. I know the facts that poster presents are true (who wrote the gospels and when). But it's hard to shake decades of having it drilled into my mind that there is a hell. I will just keep reading and thinking about that too I suppose.
I think you're referring to my thread, Canary. Let me offer this to further drive the stake through the fundamentalist heart of Christianity. Whatever of Christianity is left you can pick up as good guides for living such as "Do unto other as you want them to do unto you".
Consider this. Christianity did not invent the concept of hell so it's not like Jesus came here and revealed something unknown to us that was a new reality. No, it was first started by the Zoroastrian religion 2000 years before Jesus. Here's proof:
Quote:
[Zoroastrianism] is arguably the world’s oldest monotheistic faith.
So the Jews didn't invented monotheism, Zoroastrianism did. Early Jews were polytheistic. That's why in Genesis God says, "Let US make man...." Once the Jews were influenced by Zoroastrianism they too became monotheistic and kept just one of their gods, the war god, yahweh. Question: if Jesus was really God would he be coming from a religion that coped its beliefs from pagan religions?????
Next point:
Quote:
The Zoroastrian concept of hell was adapted in part from views about places of afterlife punishment for sinners that had been around for a long time in religions in Egypt, Persia, India and other places.
So you see, whatever the gospel writers claim Jesus was teaching about hell came from much earlier religions. Through a process called syncretism (the merging of different religions, cultures, or schools of thought) the Jews adapted this belief into their own religion during their captivity in Babylon circa 500 BC. If, I say IF Jesus was teaching this, he didn't get it from God, he got it from his early training at Jewish schools--once again proving beyond a shadow of doubt he wasn't divine or the Son of God, he was just an ordinary man who was crucified and then died and never resurrected. He's as dead today as he was when he died on the cross. This is logically indisputable.
I highly recommend you read the entire bible from a neutral mindset and see if it reveals a god or the invention of men.
As a former Christian(35+ years), I read the Bible in order to debunk a particular atheist. Even reading it to defend it, it realized it was of no god. As with many important lessons in life, you may need to learn this one on your own. Clearly, you know all believers here will give you their indoctrinated opinion. Good luck
The church were I go gives God freedom to do what He needs to do , and we Invite Holy Spirit into the Church , where It is a church that has evidence of Holy Spirit and a place where the gospel is preached , so no ho hum church there , as the worship is a celebration to the Lord Jesus in the spirit , and God will give a prophetic Word of God to encourage the people to faith for His blessing ....... See Jesus told the religious people of His day that they always rejected the Holy Spirit , so people should ask how their church is inviting God`s Holy Spirit into their church to have witness of God instead of getting bored with their church ......... Also in God`s blessing one way is when God`s Holy Spirit would bring revelation into the meaning of His Word , as this will attract more people to fill the church
The church were I go gives God freedom to do what He needs to do , and we Invite Holy Spirit into the Church , where It is a church that has evidence of Holy Spirit and a place where the gospel is preached , so no ho hum church there , as the worship is a celebration to the Lord Jesus in the spirit , and God will give a prophetic Word of God to encourage the people to faith for His blessing ....... See Jesus told the religious people of His day that they always rejected the Holy Spirit , so people should ask how their church is inviting God`s Holy Spirit into their church to have witness of God instead of getting bored with their church ......... Also in God`s blessing one way is when God`s Holy Spirit would bring revelation into the meaning of His Word , as this will attract more people to fill the church
I would say that you have realized that most of the religion that you have been taught is man made and that the ceremonies and practices involved are only as good as your investment in them: if they have meaning for you there is value but what you get is what you put into them. Continue looking but realize that faith is a personal journey. Some people find that reading the "red letters" or what is written that Jesus said helps them to a faith more in a principle of living in commmunity than in any specific religious tradition. Get what works for you from your community and don't worry too much about the rest.
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