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Old 06-29-2019, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Bellevue WA
1,194 posts, read 353,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
If you are actually affiliated with a specific religion or denomination of Christianity, how do you reconcile what your religion teaches with what you actually believe? If there's a conflict, do you just toss out the baby with the bath water and move on to a new set of beliefs, do you stress out about the discrepancy between what you believe and what you have been told you're "supposed to" believe, or have you found a good way to reconcile these conflicts while still remaining part of the group you affiliate with?

There's a song by Foals called "Mountain at my Gate", and one of the stanzas goes like this
"Dark clouds gather round
Will I run or stand my ground"
It's a test of spirit. You either have it or you don't.
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Old 06-30-2019, 02:42 AM
 
13,450 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
Quote:
Originally Posted by AleeGee View Post
There's a song by Foals called "Mountain at my Gate", and one of the stanzas goes like this
"Dark clouds gather round
Will I run or stand my ground"
It's a test of spirit. You either have it or you don't.
how about just going for cover? even metaphorically?

"we either have it or we don't"

black and white, this way or that way, or us vs them?

I don't think thats the best we can do.
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Old 06-30-2019, 03:01 AM
 
39,014 posts, read 10,812,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AleeGee View Post
There's a song by Foals called "Mountain at my Gate", and one of the stanzas goes like this
"Dark clouds gather round
Will I run or stand my ground"
It's a test of spirit. You either have it or you don't.
The spirit of martyrdom stands on both sides. Like Luther, the one who loses belief in the claims of religion has no choice. "Here I stand; i can do no other".
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Old 06-30-2019, 03:59 AM
 
Location: Bellevue WA
1,194 posts, read 353,931 times
Reputation: 1355
Proof is out there, OMG in this digital age? There's also FAITH, which people are losing by the scores. That however, is on them. This whole life on Earth is a test of faith, loyalty and honesty. God is real, Jesus is real, Angels are real. How about Dr. Raymond Moody with the book "Life After Life"? What about Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross? The testimonials in their books are there if you want to read them.
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Old 06-30-2019, 04:11 AM
 
410 posts, read 79,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AleeGee View Post
Proof is out there, OMG in this digital age? There's also FAITH, which people are losing by the scores. That however, is on them. This whole life on Earth is a test of faith, loyalty and honesty. God is real, Jesus is real, Angels are real. How about Dr. Raymond Moody with the book "Life After Life"? What about Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross? The testimonials in their books are there if you want to read them.
There are books with testimonials for all sorts of beliefs and miracles, if you are going to claim a higher ground for Christianity you'd first need to address all of the other religions and their tests of faith, loyalty, and honesty. Even within Christianity you'd still need to eliminate all of the diversity and difference of beliefs before settling on your kind of proof.
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Old 06-30-2019, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,350 posts, read 12,109,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
If you are actually affiliated with a specific religion or denomination of Christianity, how do you reconcile what your religion teaches with what you actually believe? If there's a conflict, do you just toss out the baby with the bath water and move on to a new set of beliefs, do you stress out about the discrepancy between what you believe and what you have been told you're "supposed to" believe, or have you found a good way to reconcile these conflicts while still remaining part of the group you affiliate with?
Well, I used to be affiliated with Catholicism, then a Charismatic Church.
I had to walk out of the Charismatic church 2 times (didn't go back) when they had a visiting pastor going on about the sin of homosexuals...Huh? Like I go to church to hear that cr*p.
Then, they started laughing at Democrats...that was it for me.

If didn't agree with theological stuff, I let it go by...they were good people and so what...
The Catholics, tho, believed and promoted all sorts of things ...some political...
and i just can't go along with it's corrupt murderous history.

Nope, I did not throw out the baby with the bathwater....but I did fill up the tub
with fresh, new water.
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Old 06-30-2019, 06:07 AM
 
3,062 posts, read 1,561,536 times
Reputation: 3202
I read the first section in Part First of Thomas Paine's book The Age of Reason that Itzpapalotle provided earlier in the thread. So here is a quote that I will use to attempt to answer the thread title.

Quote:
Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe.
Up until now, I didn't know that infidelity had two meanings, in which the second meaning is tied to Christianity. I should have known better with the popularity of the word infidel to describe the West.

Thomas Paine concluded that infidelity is when one lies to oneself, not when one disbelieves a religion. Here's why.

Mr. Paine reasons that we don't have to believe a secondhand account of when a god revealed himself to the first person. I think this is where the issue lies with religion in general, especially a religion that relies on the population believing a secondhand account, which most do.

We have a right to believe or not believe in a secondhand account and that has nothing to do with fidelity. Fidelity has to do with acting in accordance to what somebody believes to be true about oneself. A secondhand account of a god appearing before a single person has nothing to do with this. I don't suddenly become the unfaithful or the infidel because I didn't believe the secondhand account. This is an attempt to manipulate me.

So how do I reconcile what I believe with what I have been told to believe? I would have higher standards for secondhand accounts and I wouldn't automatically believe them. I would live true to what I believe, which consists of facts that both sides can agree on, skills, and feelings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
how about just going for cover? even metaphorically?

"we either have it or we don't"

black and white, this way or that way, or us vs them?

I don't think thats the best we can do.
Yes, to this. Good response.

Standing your ground or running away sounds great in slogans or poems, but it doesn't allow for adaptive behaviors. Stand your ground works when a person has been taught when and where a person should stand their ground.
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Old 06-30-2019, 07:16 AM
 
10,516 posts, read 12,728,045 times
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To answer the OP, the proof is in the fruit/result of the belief system. When did Adam and Eve realize that it was wrong to listen to the serpent?

Can a child trust his parent when the parent tells him to follow Christ?

Whether you even believe that story or not, you are always the final person to judge whether a belief system leads to life or death. So it's a waste of time to even argue about these things.
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Old 06-30-2019, 07:58 AM
 
3,062 posts, read 1,561,536 times
Reputation: 3202
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
To answer the OP, the proof is in the fruit/result of the belief system. When did Adam and Eve realize that it was wrong to listen to the serpent?

Can a child trust his parent when the parent tells him to follow Christ?

Whether you even believe that story or not, you are always the final person to judge whether a belief system leads to life or death. So it's a waste of time to even argue about these things.
The topic is not a waste of time. It is a very good question and it uncovers our attitudes and how we approach sensitive topics. Trust is a feeling, not a behavior. The child has a right to have other feelings about what their parents are teaching them. Their feelings are dependent on their relationship and the observations the child makes.

BTW, we can only infer what Adam and Eve learned at that moment. They had the rest of their lives to continue learning.
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Old 06-30-2019, 08:08 AM
 
10,516 posts, read 12,728,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
The topic is not a waste of time. It is a very good question and it uncovers our attitudes and how we approach sensitive topics. Trust is a feeling, not a behavior. The child has a right to have other feelings about what their parents are teaching them. Their feelings are dependent on their relationship and the observations the child makes.

BTW, we can only infer what Adam and Eve learned at that moment. They had the rest of their lives to continue learning.
Yes, the relation with the family member is important. A good relationship would be a prerequisite. And if the child still rebels even in a good relationship, then it is the child's responsibility at that point. Not that I'm speaking from experience or anything like that.
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