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Old 06-30-2019, 08:10 AM
 
3,626 posts, read 1,130,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
To answer the OP, the proof is in the fruit/result of the belief system. When did Adam and Eve realize that it was wrong to listen to the serpent?

Can a child trust his parent when the parent tells him to follow Christ?

Whether you even believe that story or not, you are always the final person to judge whether a belief system leads to life or death. So it's a waste of time to even argue about these things.
It wasn’t wrong. They gained knowledge of good and evil just like gods script was written.

Do you think A&E gaining knowledge of good and evil was wrong?
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Old 06-30-2019, 08:22 AM
 
410 posts, read 79,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
When did Adam and Eve realize that it was wrong to listen to the serpent?
Presumably when they learned the difference between right and wrong, which is when they partook of the forbidden fruit. Prior to that, one could not have expected them to know that listening to the serpent was wrong - they didn't know the meaning of wrong.
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Old 06-30-2019, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,437 posts, read 10,385,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
To answer the OP, the proof is in the fruit/result of the belief system. When did Adam and Eve realize that it was wrong to listen to the serpent?

Can a child trust his parent when the parent tells him to follow Christ?

Whether you even believe that story or not, you are always the final person to judge whether a belief system leads to life or death. So it's a waste of time to even argue about these things.
No Ozzy, it is "proof", and that is my biggest criticism of believers -- the inability to distinguish the difference between faith and fact. Faith can be a good thing; but it's not good at all when the faithful person thinks faith and fact are the same.

Just as a small example, when I go to dinner with someone who is christian and they insist on a prayer to thank god for the food they are eating, and they don't see that people all over the world who do not share their belief in christianity are also eating and enjoying meals...that ought to tell you something...if you were actually thinking.
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Old 06-30-2019, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,437 posts, read 10,385,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Yes, the relation with the family member is important. A good relationship would be a prerequisite. And if the child still rebels even in a good relationship, then it is the child's responsibility at that point. Not that I'm speaking from experience or anything like that.
At what age are you putting that "responsibility" on the child. And what are the consequences of that "responsibility". Crime and punishment?
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Old 06-30-2019, 08:58 AM
 
3,062 posts, read 1,561,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Yes, the relation with the family member is important. A good relationship would be a prerequisite. And if the child still rebels even in a good relationship, then it is the child's responsibility at that point. Not that I'm speaking from experience or anything like that.
All normal stuff. What is a good relationship between parent and child? Your idea is different from mine. Even my husband's idea was different from mine. We agreed to serve each other in marriage, but our child did not agree to that. So he resorted to very typical, common tactics that gave him the impression of rebellion, the very same struggle religion has. So I threw out what we knew and learned something new. We kept the baby.

Changing the culture in our house was no easy task because of the topic in this thread. How do we as parents reconcile what we see with what we've been told we should see? If we question what we have be told to believe, do we want our child to develop the same thought process where she can question our beliefs? How can we get anything done if we always debate? These are answered through education, general knowledge, experience, trial and error and skill.

When you said its the child's responsibility, I think one of the best ways to damage a relationship with anybody, not just a child, is to say to them "I told you so." The words are not bad themselves, but the attitude behind them, where the parent sets up the child to fail or doesn't look after them or out for them, while the child attempts to learn from trial and error.
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Old 06-30-2019, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Bellevue WA
1,194 posts, read 353,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itzpapalotl View Post
There are books with testimonials for all sorts of beliefs and miracles, if you are going to claim a higher ground for Christianity you'd first need to address all of the other religions and their tests of faith, loyalty, and honesty. Even within Christianity you'd still need to eliminate all of the diversity and difference of beliefs before settling on your kind of proof.
I know Christianity is but one belief system. I claim Christianity however, not Catholicism, Baptist, Lutheran.... I lost the feeling for organized religion back in 2001 when I went to Catholic Easter services in jeans and a nice shirt, while everyone around me was dressed magnificently, but also displaying horrible behavior. Looking at what everyone else was wearing, whispering, snickering.... I was disillusioned. Nobody heard the Father say " Everyone go to Mark 16:5 ". People were saying "Where?" Sheesh. I haven't been to Catholic service since, but I enjoy the heck out of Christian services.
Ok, so we are supposed to be wary of false prophets. What constitutes a false prophet? Is Hindu a false prophecy? What about Islam? You know, Islam says if you are Muslim, you have to accept Mohammeds teachings and all other Muslims actions. They commit heinous acts, (so do Christians, ) but be-headings, stoning, I can't reconcile. I'm trying to be non-judgmental and withhold comment here..
I don't want to be One Tin Soldier. My neighbors are Muslim and they believe in Jesus. They are the best people I've ever met in my life. I think they are the exception, and I'm fortunate for knowing them.
So I'm not claiming righteousness, but I wonder what I am supposed to eschew, and what I am supposed to embrace, w/out offending and being chauvinistic about my religion compared to others.
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Old 06-30-2019, 10:18 AM
 
410 posts, read 79,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AleeGee View Post
I know Christianity is but one belief system. I claim Christianity however, not Catholicism, Baptist, Lutheran.... I lost the feeling for organized religion back in 2001 when I went to Catholic Easter services in jeans and a nice shirt, while everyone around me was dressed magnificently, but also displaying horrible behavior. Looking at what everyone else was wearing, whispering, snickering.... I was disillusioned. Nobody heard the Father say " Everyone go to Mark 16:5 ". People were saying "Where?" Sheesh. I haven't been to Catholic service since, but I enjoy the heck out of Christian services.
Ok, so we are supposed to be wary of false prophets. What constitutes a false prophet? Is Hindu a false prophecy? What about Islam? You know, Islam says if you are Muslim, you have to accept Mohammeds teachings and all other Muslims actions. They commit heinous acts, (so do Christians, ) but be-headings, stoning, I can't reconcile. I'm trying to be non-judgmental and withhold comment here..
I don't want to be One Tin Soldier. My neighbors are Muslim and they believe in Jesus. They are the best people I've ever met in my life. I think they are the exception, and I'm fortunate for knowing them.
So I'm not claiming righteousness, but I wonder what I am supposed to eschew, and what I am supposed to embrace, w/out offending and being chauvinistic about my religion compared to others.
This reminds me of Emo Philips' joke:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?" He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!" Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.


Last edited by Itzpapalotl; 06-30-2019 at 10:27 AM..
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Old 06-30-2019, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,350 posts, read 12,109,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
When did Adam and Eve realize that it was
wrong to listen to the serpent?
The same time mom came home and found me on the floor
eating cookies from the forbidden cookie jar.

I listened to that part of the mind that tempts...the ego.
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Old 06-30-2019, 04:37 PM
 
10,516 posts, read 12,728,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itzpapalotl View Post
Presumably when they learned the difference between right and wrong, which is when they partook of the forbidden fruit. Prior to that, one could not have expected them to know that listening to the serpent was wrong - they didn't know the meaning of wrong.
They KNEW the serpent was wrong because he contradicted what God had told them.
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Old 06-30-2019, 04:55 PM
 
Location: minnesota
6,331 posts, read 2,115,480 times
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I wonder how many people belong to a religion where thinking on your own is even allowed? The religion of my upbringing (and there are others like that too) use the Bible in such a way to equate independent thought with Satan. Failing to agree with them is a weakness and may result in shunning or other corrective measures.
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