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Old 07-01-2019, 09:28 AM
 
11,225 posts, read 11,251,267 times
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Certainly most of the major religion use fear to one degree or another but no religion has used it with the gusto and panache of Christianity. I try to say this without any animosity toward this religion but that is precisely what makes Christianity about the most debased, evil, and flat-out reprehensible religion on the face of the globe--and I say this as a former Catholic and then fundamentalist who left the religion partly because of this immoral teaching of eternal damnation and partly because I found after studying Christianity thoroughly that it is a religion founded on a pack of lies.

To know its history is to know that there was a perfectly rational reason for why early Christianity adopted this belief of eternal damnation from the even more ancient religion, Zoroastrianism. Quite simply the churchmen were trying to bully and frighten pagans into accepting their new religion because they were starting with such small numbers. Christianity is unique in that it is the ONLY major religion that teaches there is no rehabilitation. Once you are finished in this life your eternal fate is sealed. There are no second chances. And your decision is based on the most flimsiest evidence to underpin your beliefs.

There are a half dozen threads running in the Christianity forum debating universalism vs eternal torment and if you read through them you see the usual pack of rabid adherents to eternal damnation. Here is the interesting part: I have demonstrated here repeatedly that we don't have a nickel's worth of proof Jesus ever said anything about hell. The fact is we haven't a nickel's worth of proof he said ANYTHING. Any records of Jesus don't start until Paul's epistles in 55 CE and he mentions nothing about anything Jesus said in his earthly life. it isn't until 75-120 that any of the gospels start getting written by anonymous highly-educated Greek scholars in Athens and elsewhere who never talked to Jesus or anything who ever spoke to Jesus, which is hearsay anyway nor did they have a single sentence anyone from the time ever wrote about Jesus. They had nothing, zilch. Yet they write these elaborate gospels and give all these long speeches Jesus supposedly talks about related to a number of matters including hell. It's plain as day

EVERYTHING ATTRIBUTED TO JESUS WAS MADE UP IN THE MINDS OF THE GREEK WRITERS

Yet this cabal of Christians over in the Christianity forum, in the face of conclusive proof that we haven't a single record of what Jesus actually spoke, continue to insist Jesus taught that people would be damned eternally if they didn't believe in him. That's why I asset (in love for them, of course) that they have to have a pathological streak of sadism down their spines. A part of them deep down WANT these heathens to suffer eternally in fire, despite their denials they desire this. Why? Likely because they are furious heathens for rejecting Jesus, and but mostly because heathens are living the independent fun-filled good life without Jesus while the fire-breathing fundamentalists are miserable going to church and tithing and throwing away their lives on anything meaningful except scraping and bowing at the throne of Jesus and licking his scandals. This kind of life would warp even the best of people deep down.

Christianity is the most evil belief system to hit the planet.
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:43 AM
 
13,450 posts, read 4,976,974 times
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nice,

I appreciate how you can keep a belief in "something" separated from a belief in a religion. The total belief in religion scews the data that says a belief in something is rational. weather its anti-god or my-god-only religionist thinking.

With Christianity it is clear. Belief in something larger and more complex than ourselves can be twisted by some Christians to say it will make us burn forever.

Its pure nonsense, this literal belief.
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:49 AM
 
4,226 posts, read 2,589,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
nice,

I appreciate how you can keep a belief in "something" separated from a belief in a religion. The total belief in religion scews the data that says a belief in something is rational. weather its anti-god or my-god-only religionist thinking.

With Christianity it is clear. Belief in something larger and more complex than ourselves can be twisted by some Christians to say it will make us burn forever.

Its pure nonsense, this literal belief.
Can you post any of your science data over on the science forum for analyzation?
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Old 07-01-2019, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,954 posts, read 22,094,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel350z View Post
So basically employing a bunch of ‘white lies’ to protect people from uncomfortable realities and unnecessary harm. One of the greatest problems with religion is that it is built, to a remarkable degree, upon lies. Mommy claims to know that Granny went straight to heaven after she died. But Mommy doesn’t actually know this. The truth is that, while Mommy may be rigorously honest on any other subject, in this instance she doesn’t want to distinguish between what she really knows (i.e. what she has good reasons to believe) and 1) what she wants to be true, or 2) what will keep her children from grieving too much in Granny’s absence. She is lying—either to herself or to her children—but we’ve all agreed not talk about it. Rather than teach our children to grieve, we teach them to lie to themselves.
Call it them "white lies" if that's how you see it. I'll call them "beliefs." And as long as my beliefs aren't hurting you, there's no earthly reason why it should bother you that I have them. Furthermore, if I may be permitted to actually stick to your OP, my beliefs have never been "fear based." Everybody grieves when someone they love dies, whether they believe in an afterlife or not. So, since nobody really knows for sure what happens after death, why is it so awful to believe that death is not the end after all? If it turns out we're wrong and you're right, how will having had a genuine belief that brings us comfort really such a bad thing?
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:01 AM
 
11,225 posts, read 11,251,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
There are several near death experiences on you tube you might take a look.
And I'm sorry to say that 99% of them are pure hash, especially the ones coming from the Jesus-believing Fundamentalists like this one:


A NDE journey through hell with Eric Wilding. Warning, the video has dark content that may be frightening to children. (But they still feed this crap to children anyway).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3VUPHDoaXE
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:07 AM
 
4,410 posts, read 1,637,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel350z View Post
"Religion is based primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. Fear is the basis of the whole thing – fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. It is because fear is at the basis of those two things."- Bertrand
No!
Religion is NOT primarily fear based.

Religion is based on, WARNINGS and GOOD HOPES.

You have your time, intelligence, logic energy, resources AND freedom of many choices to make. (yes there are restrictions where in some cases we don't have the freedom to make choices)

You have the potential to do A LOT of good that benefits humanity, and you have potential to do A LOT of bad to others.

What route do you take is your choice. Each route comes with warnings and potential consequences of your actions OR great rewards for trying to do what is good. It's all about how do you spend your life?

However, the keyword in your OP is "The unknown".

Whether you believe or don't believe in the fear based religiosity, or you believe or don't believe in what I wrote above, or you believe in something else, or you believe in none at all - in ALL cases, it's based on faith. Why because? It's "the unknown". We don't really know what's after death. All we have is faith in WHATEVER we choose to believe.
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:54 AM
 
10,520 posts, read 15,567,026 times
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Entire human behavior is based on Primary Fear. Everything else stems from it, though even subconsciously. Entire, for example, Maslov's pyramid of human needs is based on Primary Fear.
You can vale it, you can hide it, you can disregard it, you can pretend it is not there, your can intelligencise it into non existence, like atheists do - it will always be there.
That Primary Fear being fear of death. Only person with affected mind does not have it better - does not have wits enough to recognize it.
Only other humans that do not have Primary Fear anymore are those that experienced, those that attained, those that enlightened. They have first hand proof to not fear anymore. As they found what happens AFTER. They go in peace.
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:18 PM
 
367 posts, read 356,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Call it them "white lies" if that's how you see it. I'll call them "beliefs." And as long as my beliefs aren't hurting you, there's no earthly reason why it should bother you that I have them. Furthermore, if I may be permitted to actually stick to your OP, my beliefs have never been "fear based." Everybody grieves when someone they love dies, whether they believe in an afterlife or not. So, since nobody really knows for sure what happens after death, why is it so awful to believe that death is not the end after all? If it turns out we're wrong and you're right, how will having had a genuine belief that brings us comfort really such a bad thing?
Well according to Mormonism, Christ deniers end up in telestial kingdom or Outer Darkness. These doctrines of punishment in the next life cause ignorant believers to live in fear unnecessarily during this life time.

It's fine to have your own personal beliefs but if faith is what you have to go on, if faith is the link between your beliefs and the world at large, your beliefs are very likely to be wrong. Beliefs can be right or wrong. If you believe you can fly, that belief is only true if indeed you can fly. Somebody who thinks he can fly, and is wrong about it, will eventually discover there's a problem with his view of the world. The faith of religion is basically just a belief on insufficient evidence.
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Old 07-01-2019, 02:09 PM
 
367 posts, read 356,593 times
Reputation: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
No!
Religion is NOT primarily fear based.

Religion is based on, WARNINGS and GOOD HOPES.

You have your time, intelligence, logic energy, resources AND freedom of many choices to make. (yes there are restrictions where in some cases we don't have the freedom to make choices)

You have the potential to do A LOT of good that benefits humanity, and you have potential to do A LOT of bad to others.

What route do you take is your choice. Each route comes with warnings and potential consequences of your actions OR great rewards for trying to do what is good. It's all about how do you spend your life?

However, the keyword in your OP is "The unknown".

Whether you believe or don't believe in the fear based religiosity, or you believe or don't believe in what I wrote above, or you believe in something else, or you believe in none at all - in ALL cases, it's based on faith. Why because? It's "the unknown". We don't really know what's after death. All we have is faith in WHATEVER we choose to believe.
I am not criticizing faith as a positive attitude. If there were good reasons to believe that Jesus was born of a virgin these beliefs would necessarily form part of our rational description of the universe. Faith is nothing more than the license that religious people give one another to believe such propositions when reasons fail.

If we really don't know what's after death why not say "I don't know" Religious fundamentalists are convinced they know what happens after death to non-believers.
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Old 07-01-2019, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,954 posts, read 22,094,309 times
Reputation: 10687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel350z View Post
Well according to Mormonism, Christ deniers end up in telestial kingdom or Outer Darkness. These doctrines of punishment in the next life cause ignorant believers to live in fear unnecessarily during this life time.
The telestial kingdom is still Heaven and consequently, far, far better than earth ever was or will be. Outer Darkness is something else entirely. In order to end up there, one would have to have 100% proof that Jesus Christ was God and then turn around and flatly deny it. In other words, hardly anyone is going to end up there. Mormons are essentially universalists in their concept of the afterlife.

Quote:
It's fine to have your own personal beliefs but if faith is what you have to go on, if faith is the link between your beliefs and the world at large, your beliefs are very likely to be wrong. Beliefs can be right or wrong. If you believe you can fly, that belief is only true if indeed you can fly. Somebody who thinks he can fly, and is wrong about it, will eventually discover there's a problem with his view of the world. The faith of religion is basically just a belief on insufficient evidence.
Thanks for your perspective. Sorry if I don't agree with it.
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