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Old 07-04-2019, 12:02 PM
 
13,476 posts, read 4,986,806 times
Reputation: 1365

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
We have so much evidence for the holocaust and moon landings that only idiots and the deluded deny them. But we DO have evidence that most of the history of the church was invented from the second century AD onwards. So either present the evidence I and expert historians are wrong or stop making very stupid attacks with something you are ignorant of.
sure harry sure.

there is no proof of anything harry doesn't want to be true ... I get it.

next thing you will be telling is that the pyramids were built by who ever harry wants them to be built by.

If it happens to be Egyptians ... lucky us.
If not ... people that say it was the Egyptians are just wrong,
just ask harry for the ...
real truth.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:14 PM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,037 posts, read 936,220 times
Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
sure harry sure.

there is no proof of anything harry doesn't want to be true ... I get it.

next thing you will be telling is that the pyramids were built by who ever harry wants them to be built by.

If it happens to be Egyptians ... lucky us.
If not ... people that say it was the Egyptians are just wrong,
just ask harry for the ...
real truth.
No, I said "either present the evidence I and expert historians are wrong or STOP making very stupid attacks with something you are ignorant of".

So your question is, do you the evidence that the history of the church was NOT invented from the second century AD onwards? Because otherwise all you are doing is ranting like a rabid dog.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:29 PM
 
13,476 posts, read 4,986,806 times
Reputation: 1365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
No, I said "either present the evidence I and expert historians are wrong or STOP making very stupid attacks with something you are ignorant of".

So your question is, do you the evidence that the history of the church was NOT invented from the second century AD onwards? Because otherwise all you are doing is ranting like a rabid dog.
I stop at dude died and rised for our sins. after that, everything else is made up. I am sure some christian were persecuted in rome, like many other groups of people. and, like many other grousp it may have been over blown.

whats your claim again?

it didnt happen at all?

hmmm .... lets compare them and see what one is more reasonable.








.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:43 PM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,037 posts, read 936,220 times
Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
I stop at dude died and rised for our sins. after that, everything else is made up. I am sure some christian were persecuted in rome, like many other groups of people. and, like many other grousp it may have been over blown.

whats your claim again?

it didnt happen at all?

hmmm .... lets compare them and see what one is more reasonable.

.
No, you quoted my claim, that we DO have evidence that most of the history of the church was invented from the second century AD onwards. Do not change my claim yet again (a fundamentalist trait), it is ironically dishonest.

Now, you present the evidence it was NOT invented after that time, and then I will present the evidence (again) that it was.
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:39 PM
 
13,476 posts, read 4,986,806 times
Reputation: 1365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
No, you quoted my claim, that we DO have evidence that most of the history of the church was invented from the second century AD onwards. Do not change my claim yet again (a fundamentalist trait), it is ironically dishonest.

Now, you present the evidence it was NOT invented after that time, and then I will present the evidence (again) that it was.
yeah, most of the church was made a few hundred years later ... wow harry, thats amazing insight.

lets compare the claims

"it is more likely that the Romans didn't persecute some Christians"
to the claim
"it most likely did happen. but was probably exaggerated."

is it more likely the Romans didn't persecute Christians is so far in way more valid I can't see how anybody would question it. the romans where a good hearted loving people that ran society with pure love. yeah, ok, lets go with that. roman didn't persecute early Christians. when they persecuted everybody that didn't follow the roman way?

if your only claim is that the christian church was basically formed a few hundred years after the fact, thats is totally valid.

trying to claim that christian persecution never happened is pure hogwash. it the typical anti-god ploy of "we are the ones that are persecuted and they lie."

us against them harry, thats what you thrive on. so long as we are at each others throat, your ideology has a chance.
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:51 PM
 
21,815 posts, read 16,678,731 times
Reputation: 8655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post


Yes, we also know Paul says Jesus is an angel,
In Galatians 4:14 there is no reason to take what Paul was saying as anything other than that the Galatians had received him (Paul) as if he himself was an angel, or even as if he was Christ Jesus himself. As Jesus said in Matthew 10:40 ''he who receives you receives Me.'' Paul no more said that Jesus was a created angelic being than he was referring to himself as being a created angelic being. However, just as Jesus was a messenger (ἄγγελος; angel; messenger) from God; as an apostle, so was Paul.

And why would Paul say that Jesus was a created angel when in Philippians 2:5-8 he says that Jesus existed in the form of God and took the form of a man, being found in the likeness of man?

Quote:
and that he never definitely mentions a historical Jesus. Hebrews is also pre 70 AD, and only talks about a heavenly, divine Jesus revealed in the OT, who's one and only sacrifice took place in heaven, and that (arguably) he never, ever was on earth.
Actually, Paul quite clearly speaks of a historical Jesus. In Romans 1:3 Paul states that Jesus was born a descendant of David according to the flesh.
Rom. 1:3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,
In Galatians 4:4 Paul states that Jesus was born of a woman, born under the law.
Galatians 4:4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
In Philippians 2:5-8 Paul refers to Jesus as having existed in the form of God and taking the likeness of men, and dying on a cross.
Philippians 2:5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6] who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7] but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8] Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Each of those statements of Paul; Jesus being born a descendant of David, being born according to the flesh, being born of a woman, taking the likeness of men, and dying on a cross, assumes a historical Jesus. Not merely a ''heavenly, divine Jesus whose ''one and only sacrifice took place in heaven'' and that he never was on earth.
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Old 07-04-2019, 04:42 PM
 
40,043 posts, read 26,725,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
99% of Christians don't know what to believe, except what their Sunday school teacher tells them. Their teacher tells them Jesus' name appears throughout the Old Testament. Do you think any of them would bother to crack a Bible to see if it's true? Of course they wouldn't. Statistically, 50% of Christians never open their Bible once during the year. Realistically, I'd say it's more like 75%. Give them the simplest Bible quiz and they'd flunk.

But the smart ones who do do a little studying are finding how rife with lies the whole enterprise is and they're saying, "I'm outta here!"
And they lose their belief in God which I know is NOT a good thing, Thrill.
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Old 07-04-2019, 05:57 PM
 
11,234 posts, read 11,256,867 times
Reputation: 3445
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
And they lose their belief in God which I know is NOT a good thing, Thrill.

And I couldn't agree with you more, Mystic--under certain circumstances. For me, once I learned the truth about Jesus the son of God being just a legend I didn't lose my belief in a Higher Power up there. But I lost all belief in Jesus and I'm better off for that. I don't have all the baggage I carried around believing in him, eg. getting on my knees twice a day to pray to him; feeling guilty if I had some lust in my heart over a pretty girl I glanced at.


Belief in Jesus is great if you have no friends, are bed-bound in seclusion, are in prison, or have nothing worthwhile to live for. Then Jesus is great. He is your imaginary "buddy" you can talk to and pray to and have conversations with. But anyone who's able-bodied who can get out and enjoy life to its fullest I seriously discourage from throwing your life away on a worthless concept like the son of God. He doesn't keep you out of hell, he doesn't protect you, he doesn't save you--he does absolutely nothing for you practically speaking. Any benefit from him would be completely in your mind.



And that's really sad. Able-bodied fundamentalists who dedicate their life to Jesus, I think, have serious psychological issues, like women who enter the nunnery because they are afraid of men or because they lean toward women, in other words they are serving Jesus not for the sake of actually serving him, but for some selfish defect in their personality.



For lonely isolated individuals Jesus is a great buddy.
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Old 07-04-2019, 06:35 PM
 
13,476 posts, read 4,986,806 times
Reputation: 1365
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
And I couldn't agree with you more, Mystic--under certain circumstances. For me, once I learned the truth about Jesus the son of God being just a legend I didn't lose my belief in a Higher Power up there. But I lost all belief in Jesus and I'm better off for that. I don't have all the baggage I carried around believing in him, eg. getting on my knees twice a day to pray to him; feeling guilty if I had some lust in my heart over a pretty girl I glanced at.


Belief in Jesus is great if you have no friends, are bed-bound in seclusion, are in prison, or have nothing worthwhile to live for. Then Jesus is great. He is your imaginary "buddy" you can talk to and pray to and have conversations with. But anyone who's able-bodied who can get out and enjoy life to its fullest I seriously discourage from throwing your life away on a worthless concept like the son of God. He doesn't keep you out of hell, he doesn't protect you, he doesn't save you--he does absolutely nothing for you practically speaking. Any benefit from him would be completely in your mind.



And that's really sad. Able-bodied fundamentalists who dedicate their life to Jesus, I think, have serious psychological issues, like women who enter the nunnery because they are afraid of men or because they lean toward women, in other words they are serving Jesus not for the sake of actually serving him, but for some selfish defect in their personality.



For lonely isolated individuals Jesus is a great buddy.
a belief in a higher power has some science behind it. to deny a higher power, out of hand, out of a fear of religion is as nonsensical as "only Jesus saves."
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:12 PM
 
11,234 posts, read 11,256,867 times
Reputation: 3445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
a belief in a higher power has some science behind it. to deny a higher power, out of hand, out of a fear of religion is as nonsensical as "only Jesus saves."

You know, Arach, I've come to the conclusion that a person is their own free agent. They have nothing to answer to a Higher Being for because that Higher Being doesn't give a damn about them. He's up there someplace totally oblivious to us and we're down here in the muck fighting to keep our sanity, if not our lives intact. If He's not going to take any responsibility for us, like some no-good deadbeat dad then we don't owe Him a single thing. We should just live our lives as best we can. People who throw their lives away on Jesus are head cases. They need to see a shrink, unless in some crazy insane way they feel they benefit from the abuse Jesus heaps on them.
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