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Old 07-04-2019, 10:07 PM
Status: "Trump 2020-make liberals cry again" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
16,347 posts, read 8,892,691 times
Reputation: 1652

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
You know, Arach, I've come to the conclusion that a person is their own free agent. They have nothing to answer to a Higher Being for because that Higher Being doesn't give a damn about them. He's up there someplace totally oblivious to us and we're down here in the muck fighting to keep our sanity, if not our lives intact. If He's not going to take any responsibility for us, like some no-good deadbeat dad then we don't owe Him a single thing. We should just live our lives as best we can. People who throw their lives away on Jesus are head cases. They need to see a shrink, unless in some crazy insane way they feel they benefit from the abuse Jesus heaps on them.
What a sad outlook on life.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:19 PM
 
40,043 posts, read 26,725,598 times
Reputation: 6048
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
You know, Arach, I've come to the conclusion that a person is their own free agent. They have nothing to answer to a Higher Being for because that Higher Being doesn't give a damn about them. He's up there someplace totally oblivious to us and we're down here in the muck fighting to keep our sanity, if not our lives intact. If He's not going to take any responsibility for us, like some no-good deadbeat dad then we don't owe Him a single thing. We should just live our lives as best we can. People who throw their lives away on Jesus are head cases. They need to see a shrink, unless in some crazy insane way they feel they benefit from the abuse Jesus heaps on them.
Your inflated and unrealistic expectations from your indoctrination to the Christian dogma has warped your perspective beyond salvaging, Thrill. Human beings made the promises you relied on and the rules you followed, NOT God or Jesus. God is NOT counting our carnal lives against us. God promises you unconditional love and acceptance but you have to reap whatever you sow on earth and in the next life. God has NO INTEREST whatever in our CARNAL lusts, appetites, or survival requirements. We must overcome and endure this physical existence in love of God and each other, period. Our spiritual state of mind is all that matters to God and that state of mind has to be one of love.
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:53 PM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,037 posts, read 936,220 times
Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
yeah, most of the church was made a few hundred years later ... wow harry, thats amazing insight.

lets compare the claims

"it is more likely that the Romans didn't persecute some Christians"
to the claim
"it most likely did happen. but was probably exaggerated."

is it more likely the Romans didn't persecute Christians is so far in way more valid I can't see how anybody would question it. the romans where a good hearted loving people that ran society with pure love. yeah, ok, lets go with that. roman didn't persecute early Christians. when they persecuted everybody that didn't follow the roman way?

if your only claim is that the christian church was basically formed a few hundred years after the fact, thats is totally valid.

trying to claim that christian persecution never happened is pure hogwash. it the typical anti-god ploy of "we are the ones that are persecuted and they lie."

us against them harry, thats what you thrive on. so long as we are at each others throat, your ideology has a chance.
1) if you are not interested in the conversation, why join in?

2) Let us not compare your claim, because you want to talk about something no one else even mentioned. If you want to start a new conversation, create a new thread. I will certainly enjoy not visiting it.

3) stop attacking claims I have never even made, that is straw manning. And no, I am not using 'straw man' as an attack, you ARE straw manning. And that is dishonest of you.

4) Stop assigning false motives to me, it makes you look mentally ill.
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Old 07-05-2019, 12:05 AM
 
11,234 posts, read 11,256,867 times
Reputation: 3445
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Your inflated and unrealistic expectations from your indoctrination to the Christian dogma has warped your perspective beyond salvaging, Thrill. Human beings made the promises you relied on and the rules you followed, NOT God or Jesus. God is NOT counting our carnal lives against us. God promises you unconditional love and acceptance but you have to reap whatever you sow on earth and in the next life. God has NO INTEREST whatever in our CARNAL lusts, appetites, or survival requirements. We must overcome and endure this physical existence in love of God and each other, period. Our spiritual state of mind is all that matters to God and that state of mind has to be one of love.

Look, Mystic, I have no gripe against God because I've grown indifferent to Him. I don't love Him because I have nothing to love Him for and I don't hate Him because I have nothing to hate Him for. I'm deist. I believe He set this whole sorry show up down here and then flew the coop and now we're on our own. He's as indifferent to our plight as a Supreme Being could be.


Now you say God is not counting our carnal lives against us. That's find and dandy with me. I have no idea what He counts or doesn't count against me because He never conveys any discernible messages to me. He seems to communicate with jimmie because jimmie swears by Him and Jesus. Again, great. If that's what gets jimmie off then more power to him. I'm all for using whatever agents we have at our disposal to make life down here a little easier until nature says to us, "That's it for you, you're worm meat." I don't care if it's drugs or sex or booze or rock and roll.


Just make your life as easy to get through as you can while you're stuck here because one day on your deathbed you're going to look back and ask, "What was it all about, really? Did this life actually make any sense? Has my being here accomplished anything except leave a little larger carbon footprint that is eventually going to be so big it will sink civilization?" Because that's where we're all headed. So enjoy it while you got it.
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Old 07-05-2019, 12:16 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,037 posts, read 936,220 times
Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
In Galatians 4:14 there is no reason to take what Paul was saying as anything other than that the Galatians had received him (Paul) as if he himself was an angel, or even as if he was Christ Jesus himself.
Apart from the reason that it reads that way. Even Ehrman agrees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
As Jesus said in Matthew 10:40 ''he who receives you receives Me.''
Paul did not write Matthew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Paul no more said that Jesus was a created angelic being than he was referring to himself as being a created angelic being. However, just as Jesus was a messenger (ἄγγελος; angel; messenger) from God; as an apostle, so was Paul.
Yes, a messenger from God was an angel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
And why would Paul say that Jesus was a created angel when in Philippians 2:5-8 he says that Jesus existed in the form of God and took the form of a man, being found in the likeness of man?
Wrong way round. Why would Paul say in Philippians that Jesus existed in the form of God and took the form of a man, being found in the likeness of man when he says he was an angel? And nowhere does Paul definitely put this likeness of a man on earth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Actually, Paul quite clearly speaks of a historical Jesus. In Romans 1:3 Paul states that Jesus was born a descendant of David according to the flesh.
Rom. 1:3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,
Blatantly false, Romans 1:2 says this was a revelation from scripture, so not a historical fact. And Paul NEVER uses the word for born when talking about Jesus, where he does when referring to humans. I will leave it to you to check the Greek, Mr Yap needs his walk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
In Galatians 4:4 Paul states that Jesus was born of a woman, born under the law.
Galatians 4:4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
But we do not know if he was talking about a historical Jesus, or if this is another OT revelation. Paul does not tell us, so we can not presume it refers to an earthly Jesus just because you want it to. I will avoid the plausible argument that the latter part of the verse was a later anti-Marcion interpolation, I do not need it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
In Philippians 2:5-8 Paul refers to Jesus as having existed in the form of God and taking the likeness of men, and dying on a cross.
Philippians 2:5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6] who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7] but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8] Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
And is that something men do or something a divine being who created the universe would do? Obviously the latter, so this is NOT historical, is it? Paul here is clearly talking about something that is NOT human.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Each of those statements of Paul; Jesus being born a descendant of David, being born according to the flesh, being born of a woman, taking the likeness of men, and dying on a cross, assumes a historical Jesus.
And most of them are even more valid as a divine, mythical being.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Not merely a ''heavenly, divine Jesus whose ''one and only sacrifice took place in heaven'' and that he never was on earth.
Why are you using Paul to what Hebrews specifically said? Paul did not write Hebrews.
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Old 07-05-2019, 04:20 AM
 
39,033 posts, read 10,825,389 times
Reputation: 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
What a sad outlook on life.
It is, which is why he pointed it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Your inflated and unrealistic expectations from your indoctrination to the Christian dogma has warped your perspective beyond salvaging, Thrill. Human beings made the promises you relied on and the rules you followed, NOT God or Jesus. God is NOT counting our carnal lives against us. God promises you unconditional love and acceptance but you have to reap whatever you sow on earth and in the next life. God has NO INTEREST whatever in our CARNAL lusts, appetites, or survival requirements. We must overcome and endure this physical existence in love of God and each other, period. Our spiritual state of mind is all that matters to God and that state of mind has to be one of love.
If you could just look at yourself as others see you, you would see someone who sets themselves up as a prophet, inspired with true knowledge by the Cosmic Mind that you try to sell us as the Reality (1) which you know you cannot show to be intelligent.

On the basis of this 'revelation' (remember your thread with ImpossibleIronbru arguing for the reliability of divine revelation? If you don't, I do) you dismiss anything you don't like (including all science and logic) and replace it with a string of faith -claims.

And you simply cannot see yourself as other see you.

If this seems harsh, I didn't even mention the staggering hubris of your posts. Nor of course how it is par for the Faith-based course, just dressed up in a few ideas that you once inadvertently showed were borrowed anyway, some Chophraesqe Wooism and the attempted water - muddying of 'Quantum'. But, like i said, i won't mention that.

(1) and Please save the appeal to the (95%) unknowns which are -Unknown - not Evidence of anything. If your head is so screwed that you don't understand the venomfang fallacy, everybody else does.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-05-2019 at 04:33 AM..
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Old 07-05-2019, 04:48 AM
 
13,476 posts, read 4,986,806 times
Reputation: 1365
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
You know, Arach, I've come to the conclusion that a person is their own free agent. They have nothing to answer to a Higher Being for because that Higher Being doesn't give a damn about them. He's up there someplace totally oblivious to us and we're down here in the muck fighting to keep our sanity, if not our lives intact. If He's not going to take any responsibility for us, like some no-good deadbeat dad then we don't owe Him a single thing. We should just live our lives as best we can. People who throw their lives away on Jesus are head cases. They need to see a shrink, unless in some crazy insane way they feel they benefit from the abuse Jesus heaps on them.
I mean yeah, you have a point. no doubt about it. But I look at your adjectives

doesn't give a damn
oblivious
dead beat dad
head cases
need a shrink
crazy insane way
abuse from jesus heaps on them

I honestly think your evaluation is also based on the feeling that you were tricked by religionist type people.

I have come to the conclusion that we are/can be best be described as surrounded by life. I assign no positive feelings or negative feeling to that system.

If I just look at the adjectives you listed, it shows that the claim "there is something" is more valid than "there is nothing."

If I am honest, I start all my logic with "something is more logical than "nothing"". Then, lets describe this something's properties.

its certifiably more logical than starting at "religious people are the cause of all evil."

your case is strictly confined to "anti-christian.", which, I am totally fine with. and you do a good job at not bleeding to much over to anti-god.
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:05 AM
 
13,476 posts, read 4,986,806 times
Reputation: 1365
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Look, Mystic, I have no gripe against God because I've grown indifferent to Him. I don't love Him because I have nothing to love Him for and I don't hate Him because I have nothing to hate Him for. I'm deist. I believe He set this whole sorry show up down here and then flew the coop and now we're on our own. He's as indifferent to our plight as a Supreme Being could be.


Now you say God is not counting our carnal lives against us. That's find and dandy with me. I have no idea what He counts or doesn't count against me because He never conveys any discernible messages to me. He seems to communicate with jimmie because jimmie swears by Him and Jesus. Again, great. If that's what gets jimmie off then more power to him. I'm all for using whatever agents we have at our disposal to make life down here a little easier until nature says to us, "That's it for you, you're worm meat." I don't care if it's drugs or sex or booze or rock and roll.


Just make your life as easy to get through as you can while you're stuck here because one day on your deathbed you're going to look back and ask, "What was it all about, really? Did this life actually make any sense? Has my being here accomplished anything except leave a little larger carbon footprint that is eventually going to be so big it will sink civilization?" Because that's where we're all headed. So enjoy it while you got it.
yeah, again, you make good points.

don't forget people like me though. I don't care if there is or is not a god. I make no choices based on a statement of belief about god. People make claims ... lets see how valid they are. I see anti-god and my-god-only as serous threats to liberty and freedom everywhere. Yes, Fundy theism, due to numbers, is more of a problem.

That is not reason enough for me to change how the universe works.
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:21 AM
 
13,476 posts, read 4,986,806 times
Reputation: 1365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
1) if you are not interested in the conversation, why join in?

2) Let us not compare your claim, because you want to talk about something no one else even mentioned. If you want to start a new conversation, create a new thread. I will certainly enjoy not visiting it.

3) stop attacking claims I have never even made, that is straw manning. And no, I am not using 'straw man' as an attack, you ARE straw manning. And that is dishonest of you.

4) Stop assigning false motives to me, it makes you look mentally ill.
lmao .. lets not compare them ... because you and I know what happens when we move outside of your anti-god box don't we?

"false motives", I never said your motives are false. I say your motive is "anti-religious/god ideology" only. I go further and say anti-religious/god ideology is as dangerous as my-god-only ideology.

this is a great topic to prove how right I am. That you obscure the facts and muddy the waters due to your central dogma as described by your faith.

stop obscuring all the facts to make the point.

"Christians being persecuted" and "Christianity wasn't a well documented religion until well after Jesus." are two different claims.

it confuses people when you put them together. You leave them with 1/2 truths and 1/2 untruths.

Its more valid to claim that Christians were persecuted by the Romans. we all understand they probably over blew it. Just like our comrades over blow some things.

that ends that. that is where you start that line of logic.

and, then we have the claim "Christians did not document their religion until well after the fact." yeah, that's clear enough.

thats done. thats where we start that line.

the problem harry, you brought into a less valid starting point in understanding the system we are in. You bought into, hook, line, and sinker, "fear religion so much we need to stop it at all cost."

its a fear based ideology. all fear based ideology's end up hurting far more people than helping. That what jesus meant by "love thy enemy." it could very well be changed to

'don't fear your neighbor, deal with thy neighbor."
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Old 07-05-2019, 10:04 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,037 posts, read 936,220 times
Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
lmao .. lets not compare them ... because you and I know what happens when we move outside of your anti-god box don't we?
When I am talking about A, I do not expect people to come in and start talking about X for no reason other than their mental illness makes them. That is why I am not comparing what you want to talk about, so stop lying about why I am not discussing your arguments no one else was talking about. If you want to talk about them, go and sit in the Arach corner, were we can tighten the straps on your jacket and keep an eye on you.
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